Uncomfortable Doctrine

[Vanhin]

Fiona84,

I think it depends on how he was talking about it.

The fact is, our spirits are the literal offspring God; which means we are the same species as he is. This is not new and is taught as a fundamental doctrine of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. That fact alone - that we are children of God - makes us gods in a sense already. Though we call the offspring of lions, cubs, it does not change the fact that they are lions.

That said, our scriptures do not teach us that we will become Gods in the sense that we will be worshiped. But they do explicitly teach that those who are obedient to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel will gods and goddesses. Speaking of those who enter and keep the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, which is the final ordinance that must be performed in mortality, our scriptures teach the following:

And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (D&C 132:19-20)

We learn this glory is given to them "... to fulfill the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." (D&C 132:63). So we will continue to worship God the Father and his Christ forevermore, and we will continue his work. Beyond that, we really don't have much info.

Sincerely,
Vanhin

[tubaloth]

I have always had a hard time with this doctrine. When he spoke, I felt awful. I felt uncomortable, like a jolt of annoyance shot through me. I saw a few people give eachother 'looks', as well.

If you haven’t taken the time to study this doctrine it isn’t one that comes easy. Mostly because don’t know really all that God is! When we even try to compare ourselves to Him, it seems like the equation doesn’t come out right. (it doesn’t equal).

But once this idea is studied, it starts to make a lot more sense. God loves us enough that he wants us to be happy! He knows the ultimate form of happiness is living the life he does (Which is Eternal life, God is Eternal, we gain eternal life, because is the kind of life God has). God loves us so much that he wants to bring us to his level (That’s the whole point of why he sent his Son, to earth, that we could reach the highest level to be with him, and to be like him). True happiness isn’t in being a God, its saving children! Its saving your own Children! Its teaching them the way to be happy and to feel the fullness of Joy! When I realize my Heavenly Father loves me that much! Is willing to go to that great of length to help me be like Him! That makes me feel good!

To make it worse I always think of Pres. Hinkley saying "I don't know that we teach that" when asked about the godhood doctrine on Larry King. It seems like even he was uncomfortable with that!

We won’t go into that…
But I well site another Talk Pres. Hinkley gave just before he be came president of the church.

On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62; and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1.)
Our enemies have criticized us for believing in this. Our reply is that this lofty concept in no way diminishes God the Eternal Father. He is the Almighty. He is the Creator and Governor of the universe. He is the greatest of all and will always be so. But just as any earthly father wishes for his sons and daughters every success in life, so I believe our Father in Heaven wishes for his children that they might approach him in stature and stand beside him resplendent in godly strength and wisdom.
Gordon B. Hinckley, “Don’t Drop the Ball,” Ensign, Nov. 1994,

Understanding this doctrine, we realize we aren’t putting down God, we are realizing how great of Blessings he has in store for us! We can become more then just being with him, playing some harp all day!

When do members first get taught this?

Probably more during Temple Preparation time.

I never heard a thing about it until I was past YW, and that bothers me.

You probably did hear parts of it, but you didn’t understand what we being taught so you forgot it.

It certainly wasn't mentioned when I got the discussions and the whole 'secrecy' about it makes me dislike it even more.

It usually isn’t something that comes up very often. Not because it isn’t doctrine, but because in a church setting you have to teach a lesson that is for everybody.

[/quote]
"Let this mind be in you," writes our theological friend Paul, "which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God" (Phil. 2:5-6), thus showing how Christ, our Prototype, has attained oneness with his Father. Paul's associate apostle John takes the next step and applies the same principle to all who by faith become the sons of God. "Now are we the sons of God," he wrote, meaning that here and now while in mortality we have been adopted into the family of Deity and have become joint-heirs with his natural Son. "And it doth not yet appear what we shall be," he continues, meaning that no mortal man can conceive of the glory and dominion which shall be heaped upon those who reign on thrones in the exalted realms. "But we know that, when he shall appear [the Second Coming of our Lord], we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." As a natural conclusion to such a doctrine, John draws this obvious conclusion: "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself even as he is pure." (1 John 3:2-3.)

Pondering these words of the two ancient apostles, Paul and John, President Lorenzo Snow, a modern apostle—who also is the author of the couplet: "As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be"—addressed these poetically phrased truths to Paul:

Dear Brother:

Hast thou not been unwisely bold,
Man's destiny to thus unfold?
To raise, promote such high desire,
Such vast ambition thus inspire?
Still, 'tis no phantom that we trace
Man's ultimatum in life's race;

This royal path has long been trod
By righteous men, each now a God:
As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too,
First babes, then men—to gods they grew.
As man now is, our God once was;
As now God is, so man may be,—
Which doth unfold man's destiny.
For John declares: When Christ we see
Like unto him we'll truly be.
And he who has this hope within,
Will purify himself from sin.
Who keep this object grand in view,
To folly, sin, will bid adieu,
Nor wallow in the mire anew;
Nor ever seek to carve his name
High on the shaft of worldly fame;
But here his ultimatum trace:
The head of all his spirit-race.
Ah, well: that taught by you, dear Paul,
'Though much amazed, we see it all;
Our Father God, has ope'd our eyes,
We cannot view it otherwise.
The boy, like to his father grown,
Has but attained unto his own;
To grow to sire from state of son,
Is not 'gainst Nature's course to run.
A son of God, like God to be,
Would not be robbing Deity;
And he who has this hope within,
Will purify himself from sin.
You're right, St. John, supremely right:
Whoe'er essays to climb this height,
Will cleanse himself of sin entire—
Or else 'twere needless to aspire.

—Cited in Commentary 2:532-33
(Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah: The First Coming of Christ [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1978], 134.)[/quote]

[lilered]

Perhaps a 2 key words that should be considered when discussing this topic is "potential & eternal".

We all have the opportunity to make correct choices and inherit the highest kingdom of god at sometime in this life or afterwards. We have the opportunity to display proper repentance and grow closer to God during our lifetime. Gods plan allows for us to have Eternal Progression. If we comply with the expectations he has for us, we have the potential to be like him one day.

To me this principle makes perfect sense.

[candyprpl]

Originally Posted by lilered

Perhaps a 2 key words that should be considered when discussing this topic is "potential & eternal".

We all have the opportunity to make correct choices and inherit the highest kingdom of god at sometime in this life or afterwards. We have the opportunity to display proper repentance and grow closer to God during our lifetime. Gods plan allows for us to have Eternal Progression. If we comply with the expectations he has for us, we have the potential to be like him one day.

To me this principle makes perfect sense.

Just want to make a point on what you said --potential to be like Him one day.

Not be Him. He is and always will be God our Father and creator but just like a child growing up to be somewhat like their father or mother, we can maybe be gods (little g) and goddesses.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

I do not have much difficulty believing we shall be come god-like. After all, we will be glorified, and we will rule and reign with Christ. However, can I expect to some day have subjects that worship me? To me, such a belief would cross the line. Even if I remain a subject to my Heavenly Father, and continue to worship him throughout eternity, if I also believe I shall receive worship...that seems blasphemous to me. At least one LDS member has publically posted that such is unthinkable, and seems blasphemous too. Perhaps this is an area of speculation, but many non-LDS believe this is standard LDS teaching--that members expect to become Gods.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. If you are like G-d (or G-d-like), how could you be uncomfortable with someone who is not like G-d worshiping you while G-d is quite comfortable with being worshiped by such? I think this is a clear indication that you do not desire to become like G-d.

I believe the only reason G-d asks us to worship him is because it can benefit us in an eternal manner and help us become like him. If you could help someone to have an eternal benefit would you not want such a thing to happen?

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by fiona84

Hi everyone,

Those who know me on here know that I came back to church 'full force' last year after being only semi-active for a few years.

I a convert, a college student who converted when I was 13.

Yesterday at sacrament meeting we had a high council speaker and he made me really uncomfortable. He kept calling God/Heavenly Father just 'Father' and while that sounded odd to me, what really bothered me what how he kept referencing us becoming gods and goddesses in the afterlife.

I have always had a hard time with this doctrine. When he spoke, I felt awful. I felt uncomortable, like a jolt of annoyance shot through me. I saw a few people give eachother 'looks', as well.

To make it worse I had my nonmember, investigating husband with me who has no idea what any of that means.

I left in a bad mood after Relief Society. That doctrine is really a testimony killer for me. I just cannot believe that we will become gods and goddesses, it seems really blasphemus and counter to what is taught in the scriptures.

I hate having these doubts about god-hood, and I have prayed and prayed but I cannot feel the spirit when praying about this.

To make it worse I always think of Pres. Hinkley saying "I don't know that we teach that" when asked about the godhood doctrine on Larry King. It seems like even he was uncomfortable with that!

I sincerely would like some help with this. What do you guys think? When was this first taught and how can it be compatable with us believing in God and Christ? Maybe some history will make me feel better?

ETA: When do members first get taught this? I never heard a thing about it until I was past YW, and that bothers me. It certainly wasn't mentioned when I got the discussions and the whole 'secrecy' about it makes me dislike it even more.

Many people have varied ideas about what G-d is. What about your belief of G-d makes you uncomfortable to emulate?

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. If you are like G-d (or G-d-like), how could you be uncomfortable with someone who is not like G-d worshiping you while G-d is quite comfortable with being worshiped by such? I think this is a clear indication that you do not desire to become like G-d.

If God wants me to become "a God," that others worship, then that's what I want too. It's not about what I desire, though. It's about what I perceive my Sovereign has in store for me. And, apparently this is an area that many of your own bretheren find difficult as well.

[fiona84]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Many people have varied ideas about what G-d is. What about your belief of G-d makes you uncomfortable to emulate?

The Traveler

I believe that we are to worship God. I believe that the only person ever on earth that has been fit to worship is Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

I want to be 'Christ-like' and strive for perfection even though I know as a sinner, I will never be perfect like Christ.

So...I feel in heaven that even though we are created in God's image and will be able to inheret the kingdom of God, etc, he is still our one and only God, and we are not worthy to be deemed gods and godesses, even with a little 'g'.

I find the idea that my husband or I will one day be worshipped to be a sick idea.

I vaguely remember hearing that saying about...as man now is, God once was, etc....

so that means God was once a man? Not our God? I thought He has always existed as God?

This whole thing still makes me squirm.

I have a testimony of the church, and even when I 'tried' to go to other churches I could not deny this church...and I mean, all you have to do is look at our church and know it is from God.

Which is why this bothers me so much.

Thanks everyone. I'm going to keep praying about it and also focus on things I DO know to be true.

This high council speaker....spoke about God as if he were just a next door neighbor or something. There was no reverence to his words about 'Father', just ramblings about how we should be good so we can be gods and godesses like 'Father'. It was like he put us on equal footing or someting. He couldn't even call him 'Heavenly Father' or GOD.

I'm going to try to forget about this talk. Thanks for your insight, everyone!

PS. What is that madness about God landing on earth and his wife giving birth to Adam? Again, I'm ignoring it.....

[myway]

Hello,
I too struggle with this. I am investigating the Church and have been for about a year. I try and stick primarily with what is truly doctrine in the Church. I have been on Youtube a whole lot. I have read a lot of the LDS information, but along with that, the anti crowd sneaks in it's jabs and punches as well. From what I understand, the idea of becoming Gods and Godesses is not doctrinal, but speculative. As the Adam/God theory, as is the God was once a mortal man theory as well. From what I gather these are just that, theories, or even just passing thoughts by previous LDS leaders.

There in lays the problem, especially for those who are investigating the Church. The anti crowd gets a hold of these speculations, and then builds they're arguments upon them to use them to tear the LDS Church apart. For a regular Evangelical person investigating the LDS Church, these speculations go against everything they have ever believed.

A thought comes to my mind. To tell the truth, I do not want to be a God,..ever. I just want to be with the Lord God when I pass from this world. I have no desire to be a God, (I am far too lazy! LOL), but it is very important for these issues to be addressed by the Church, especially on Youtube. Youtube has become one of the most popular sites for Investigators. I hope the true information gets out there.

[bmy-]

It's important to note -- i've never read anywhere that suggests we will be worshipped. Our glory is the Fathers glory after all. I've got my own theories.. but they have no place here.

These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett Sermon (LDS.org)

Blessings of Exaltation

Our Heavenly Father is perfect. However, he is not jealous of his wisdom and perfection. He glories in the fact that it is possible for his children to become like him. He has said, “This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

*

1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
*

2. They will become gods.
*

3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
*

4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
*

5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

LDS.org - Family Chapter Detail - Exaltation (LDS.org)

But even if that premortal scene did not actually happen, the principle it taught me is true: Jenny is a child of God, a goddess in embryo

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Purpose of Life (LDS.org)

After a period, there would be a resurrection or a reunion of the body and the spirit, which would render us immortal and make possible our further climb toward perfection and godhood.

LDS.org - Melchizedek Priesthood Chapter Detail - “To Live with Him Someday� (LDS.org)

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett Sermon (LDS.org)

Just a compilation of quotes from the LDS mainpage. To the OP -- continue to pray about it. Possibly talk to the bishop? Good luck.. We all have issues that we don't always feel are true (I think?) .. you aren't alone!