Uncomfortable Doctrine

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi again Hemi,

The answer prophet BY gives on this is also clear to me, BY claims Adam and God are one in the same.

That was not the case President Young was revealing. According to President Young, both Adam and Eve were born of immortal parents and brought to this earth. Both are literal decedents of the Heavenly Parents. The Savior on the other hand was born of an immortal FATHER and mortal mother. Being the only begotten of the mortal flesh. Adam and Eve were not. This means both are Sons/daughter of GOD.

You will need the Holy Ghost to help aid you on this given personal insight.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi Hemi,

Would a sermon given from the pulpit speaking as a prophet be considered doctrine ( teaching)??? I would certainly think so. King Follet sermon given by JS from the pulpit cleary teaches ( doctrine ) that " God himself was once as we are now, an exalted man "
" I will take away the veil so you all can see God once lived as man on an earth "
" You must learn how to become Gods yourself " and so on and so on.

This is why I am so confused as to why the LDS members offer things like " speculation" or Prophets not really speaking as prophets, or not really an official teaching of the LDS.

What can possibly be more official teaching than the First prophet JS giving a semon on the matter????

GOd bless,
Carl

Exactly...all it takes for anyone who still doubt this is to seek the Spirit for an anwser.

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

If Joseph said it, consider it doctrine.

That is certainly what I would have thought.

[jazzy225]

Originally Posted by HEthePrimate

Hi Fiona,

About godhood: I tend to believe that this means primarily becoming like God in terms of character traits.

DH

DH,

In Blessings of Exaltation (Gospel Principles), chap 47, number 2. Read slowly and then explain to the forum the difference between the next two statements.

"I tend to believe that this means primarily becoming like God ".
"They will become gods".

This is why Fiona is doubting. Isn't this the core (deep) doctrine the root of your beliefs? Isn't this the meat you are talking about?


Lets see we are encouraged not to discuss it here, and the anti sites are out of the question. I guess, it is something that can't be mentioned in this forum, according to some members.

Where can this be mentioned? It isn't taught according to members, yet, the gospel principles state it is used as a teaching manual.

[Hemidakota]

There topics that President Young taught that may not be in total content when he gave it that may require pondering and aid by the Spirit for added truths.

Something to think about, intelligence cannot be created by GOD, then who created it? Even the materials that are used to fashion and form worlds, spirit bodies, mortal flesh, and so on, cannot be created by GOD, then who did? President Young spoke briefly on this subject, so did Joseph Smith but not adding any further clarity.

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Exactly...all it takes for anyone who still doubt this is to seek the Spirit for an anwser.

YES! Absolutely. Just because Joseph said it does not mean that all understand completely or draw the correct conclusions or understand the proper contexts or no when to stop making conclusions and just say "I don't know."

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

If Joseph said it, consider it doctrine. Anyone else who wants to say different, I would caution them to seek out the Holy Ghost for a confirmation then deny what was given by him.

There are doctrine and principles that Joseph could not give to the Saints due to their spiritual immaturity. This comes by personal revelation for your own spiritual edification.

Oh, Hemi. I totally agree with your second paragraph, but your first shows what I have found to be trouble RE: doctrine.

As a mystic, I have had plenty of time to ponder the difference between the personal and the institutional aspects of our faith. And there ARE differences. For example, doctrine as an institutional concept. Doctrine is not all truth, it is the truth that is accepted by the institutional Church as 'official'. Thus, the limitation the Church has placed upon doctrine is that it must be in the four standard works, the declarations and proclamations of the First Presidency, and the Articles of Faith. That's IT. Nothing else. Not Conference talks, no Ensign articles, etc. (see lds.org Commentary, May 2007)

That doesn't mean that Joseph's King Follett sermon is not true, far from it. It just means that the concepts taught there are not institutionalized as the proclaimed Gospel and doctrine of the Church. I'll grant that over the years this line has been blurred, but I see the Church now taking steps to try and clarify this, and limit what 'doctrine' is. I think its a VERY good thing.


HiJolly

[Hemidakota]

Remember, Joseph was a simple man and not being bullied by academic pressures of the day. LOL

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

This is why I am so confused as to why the LDS members offer things like " speculation" or Prophets not really speaking as prophets, or not really an official teaching of the LDS.

What can possibly be more official teaching than the First prophet JS giving a semon on the matter????

It's because we are ALL prophets, Ceeboo. The Church has a somewhat anarchical (is that a word?) approach to truth, revelation, visions, and so forth. We want ALL people to be prophets of the Lord, if possible.

The practical results are somewhat confusing, though, and so the Church says, "you can believe anything you want, but in Church, try to limit yourselves to doctrines of the Church". Thus the Church has no sin of heresy. You can think literally ANYTHING and still be a member in good standing.

See my post to Hemi for more info along these lines.

HiJolly

[MobyMule]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

There topics that President Young taught that may not be in total content when he gave it that may require pondering and aid by the Spirit for added truths.

Something to think about, intelligence cannot be created by GOD, then who created it? Even the materials that are used to fashion and form worlds, spirit bodies, mortal flesh, and so on, cannot be created by GOD, then who did? President Young spoke briefly on this subject, so did Joseph Smith but not adding any further clarity.

These are the things that are very hard to even comprehend much less understand with our mortal understanding of how we think God operates or how the universe operates. I find that President Young went over many peoples understanding and spiritual readiness in these ideas and doctrines he presented. Most people don't like the details they like things to stay a mystery.