Uncomfortable Doctrine

[MobyMule]

Originally Posted by jazzy225

DH,

In Blessings of Exaltation (Gospel Principles), chap 47, number 2. Read slowly and then explain to the forum the difference between the next two statements.

"I tend to believe that this means primarily becoming like God ".
"They will become gods".

This is why Fiona is doubting. Isn't this the core (deep) doctrine the root of your beliefs? Isn't this the meat you are talking about?


Lets see we are encouraged not to discuss it here, and the anti sites are out of the question. I guess, it is something that can't be mentioned in this forum, according to some members.

Where can this be mentioned? It isn't taught according to members, yet, the gospel principles state it is used as a teaching manual.

Well people like to put their own understanding of what a god is on it. Will any of the people on this earth supplant Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ? No. Will we be Joint-Heirs with Christ? Yes. The details of how it works we don't know. But we know that God will grant his faithful children with all that he has. What does that mean exactly? Well we believe we have more detail than others.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

If Joseph said it, consider it doctrine. Anyone else who wants to say different, I would caution them to seek out the Holy Ghost for a confirmation then deny what was given by him.

There are doctrine and principles that Joseph could not give to the Saints due to their spiritual immaturity. This comes by personal revelation for your own spiritual edification.

I'm sure you are assuming that we have a correct version of what Joseph Smith taught as doctrine and principles. My understanding is that scribes in those days often wrote as if they were the person they were writing for and sometimes wrote sometime later from memory (and memory possibly corrupted by their own interpretations/understandings and maybe even that of others they discussed it with.)

There is also the matter of prophets being human and fallible, and not always speaking for God.

As members of the LDS Church I think we should only be held accountable for that which is in our canon and official statements from the First Presidency.

[jazzy225]

Originally Posted by Misshalfway

Becoming like God......and becoming God himself are two different ideas. The scriptures use the term "gods" with a little g. It seems to me there is a great disparity in our human ability to comprehend what this means. It hasn't been revealed completely and isn't taught as doctrine. It lies in the realms of intelligent speculation. You yourself, traveler, make some assumptions that seem to feel right to you. But they are not church doctrine and shouldn't be presented as such. That is my only point.


"Do I believe we teach eternal progression? Yes. Do I believe that godhood in some form is attainable? Yes. Have I said we don't teach the concept? No. "

Miss half way,

I have left in bold two statements that clash from you. Here are two exact quotes on this subject. Plz explain why your answers are not consistent.

And Yes, I have read your posts and you are not consistent. Yes, you do teach that you can become a god, because the gospel principles are used as a teaching manual...../personal study, which implies doctrine. Why bring it up/teach it, if it is not doctrine.

[candyprpl]

I know that many don't like the term, 'milk before meat,' and some seem to think the Church is hiding or being secretive with some teachings. And when reading this a thought came to my mind.....if I were able to sit down with Pres. Monson or any of the prophets, even Joseph, and asked them to teach me all they know, I would be so overwhelmed and I'm sure my understanding would be anything but perfect.

When I first joined the Church and started learning the gospel, I did find it a little overwhelming and it scared me. Not enough to send me running, but......

Just reading some of the teachings from the latter-day prophets I can see that they have an understanding of God's attributes that I'm only now beginning to have a little understanding of. I don't have a problem with knowing that there are others who have a better spiritual understanding of God's workings. It doesn't take book learning, it takes learning from the heart and that is harder to come by than just picking up a book and studying words.

I know ---- that's just my opinion

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by jazzy225

[I]

Miss half way,

I have left in bold two statements that clash from you. Here are two exact quotes on this subject. Plz explain why your answers are not consistent.

And Yes, I have read your posts and you are not consistent. Yes, you do teach that you can become a god, because the gospel principles are used as a teaching manual...../personal study, which implies doctrine. Why bring it up/teach it, if it is not doctrine.

I wasn't referring to the whole concept of godhood or eternal progression. I did try to explain myself on many other posts. Perhaps you could look at more than just these two lines to understand my meanings.

I was referring to a quote by president Hinkley where he explained that we don't know enough about this subject. I believe others have posted the quote somewhere. But it would take me a minute to find it.

And I don't think I said anything about not discussing it. It is a fascinating topic and fills my mind with the exciting and humbling possibilities. I just think that wisdom might be a blessed addition to such conversations.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by MobyMule

Well people like to put their own understanding of what a god is on it. Will any of the people on this earth supplant Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ? No. Will we be Joint-Heirs with Christ? Yes. The details of how it works we don't know. But we know that God will grant his faithful children with all that he has. What does that mean exactly? Well we believe we have more detail than others.

Everyone is unique of course but for me understanding the concepts recently discussed in this thread is really quite simple. God is God only to His own spirit children! A God is a Heavenly Parent.

Heavenly Father is not a dictator or whatever anymore than earthly parents are (or should be) to their own children. He is our FATHER and always will be the one and only natural Father of our spirit bodies.

Why shouldn't at least some of His children 'grow up' and become like Him? He would then become those children's Grandfather and be edified and glorified through their works and their children in turn, similar to grandparents being proud of their grandchildren.

It's not hard to get a grasp of the matter if we come to a complete awareness that God, the universe and everything is just a family affair. Everything tangible is designed to help teach God's children to make right choices, grow up, and become like Him. We've forgotten for our turn on earth, but things like creating planets perhaps used to be like building houses on earth, not so difficult if you study up on how to do it and have the tools, materials and permissions needed.

In our mortal role as fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, we are approximating as closely as possible the true order of Heaven, practicing for the real thing. That is why sexual sin outside of the bounds God has instructed is so abominable to Him.

Not all of God's children are going to 'grow up' and become like Him anymore than all of the children of the president of a corporation are going to grow up and be qualified to take over the corporation, even though he might wish they would. It's a matter of personal choices...

That's how I see it, that's what I am comfortable with, that understanding may not be for everyone.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by justamere10

I'm sure you are assuming that we have a correct version of what Joseph Smith taught as doctrine and principles. My understanding is that scribes in those days often wrote as if they were the person they were writing for and sometimes wrote sometime later from memory (and memory possibly corrupted by their own interpretations/understandings and maybe even that of others they discussed it with.)

There is also the matter of prophets being human and fallible, and not always speaking for God.

As members of the LDS Church I think we should only be held accountable for that which is in our canon and official statements from the First Presidency.

Each case was different for any given scribe. Even Joseph's own first vision was not written for years afterward and made several revisions. Even my own conversion had revisons. This is no surprise.

There is more than being accountable to just official statements from the church. You still have to account for any given truths from the Godhead directly, the Holy Ghost, or ministering spirits.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by jazzy225

[i]

Miss half way,

I have left in bold two statements that clash from you. Here are two exact quotes on this subject. Plz explain why your answers are not consistent.

And Yes, I have read your posts and you are not consistent. Yes, you do teach that you can become a god, because the gospel principles are used as a teaching manual...../personal study, which implies doctrine. Why bring it up/teach it, if it is not doctrine.

We don't teach all the truth as doctrine, in the Church. The Church focuses on those truths that will save, exalt and eventually glorify man. So, doctrine is a subset of truths, and Miss halfway did not contradict herself.

HiJolly

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by MobyMule

These are the things that are very hard to even comprehend much less understand with our mortal understanding of how we think God operates or how the universe operates. I find that President Young went over many peoples understanding and spiritual readiness in these ideas and doctrines he presented. Most people don't like the details they like things to stay a mystery.

I would have to agree if we want to limit our own edification then it would be hard to comprehend anything that is given.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

There is more than being accountable to just official statements from the church. You still have to account for any given truths from the Godhead directly, the Holy Ghost, or ministering spirits.

So true. Spoken like a true mystic!


HiJolly