Uncomfortable Doctrine

[fiona84]

Hi everyone,

Those who know me on here know that I came back to church 'full force' last year after being only semi-active for a few years.

I a convert, a college student who converted when I was 13.

Yesterday at sacrament meeting we had a high council speaker and he made me really uncomfortable. He kept calling God/Heavenly Father just 'Father' and while that sounded odd to me, what really bothered me what how he kept referencing us becoming gods and goddesses in the afterlife.

I have always had a hard time with this doctrine. When he spoke, I felt awful. I felt uncomortable, like a jolt of annoyance shot through me. I saw a few people give eachother 'looks', as well.

To make it worse I had my nonmember, investigating husband with me who has no idea what any of that means.

I left in a bad mood after Relief Society. That doctrine is really a testimony killer for me. I just cannot believe that we will become gods and goddesses, it seems really blasphemus and counter to what is taught in the scriptures.

I hate having these doubts about god-hood, and I have prayed and prayed but I cannot feel the spirit when praying about this.

To make it worse I always think of Pres. Hinkley saying "I don't know that we teach that" when asked about the godhood doctrine on Larry King. It seems like even he was uncomfortable with that!

I sincerely would like some help with this. What do you guys think? When was this first taught and how can it be compatable with us believing in God and Christ? Maybe some history will make me feel better?

ETA: When do members first get taught this? I never heard a thing about it until I was past YW, and that bothers me. It certainly wasn't mentioned when I got the discussions and the whole 'secrecy' about it makes me dislike it even more.

[Misshalfway]

I don't know if this helps but I will give it a go.

We believe that God wants to bless us with all he has and we believe in eternal progression. Now......some have taken that idea and expounded on it. They have pondered and come up with ideas. This subject gets talked about like it is doctrine.....when perhaps it is more like educated speculation. And sometimes I think speakers like high counselmen forget who their audience is.

I don't know what becoming a God means really. Is it another word for spiritual adult??? I don't know. One thing I do know is that God our Father will always be our Father and Jesus will always be our Savior no matter what we progress to. I was told once that God the Father was also a Savior. This helps me......because no matter what I do or what level I progress to, I will never beat that!

These are questions for the eternities. There are no cannonized scriptures teaching this. Our manuals don't dwell on it. And our lessons place it in its proper context if it is mentioned. And I don't blame you for being uncomfortable. I wasn't there so I don't know what was said exactly but if you felt weird....that is ok. This is not a doctrine of salvation. It is something that some like to question and explore and who sometimes stumble because of their assumptions.

I am sorry that your H had to be there. Perhaps you could explain where doctrine ends and conjecture begins. That may help. And if the Spirit didn't support what this man said, chances are he departed from the true revealed parts.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by fiona84

Hi everyone,

Those who know me on here know that I came back to church 'full force' last year after being only semi-active for a few years.

I a convert, a college student who converted when I was 13.

My oldest son's wife was converted at 13, but couldn't be baptized 'til she was 18. She's awesome.

Originally Posted by fiona84

Yesterday at sacrament meeting we had a high council speaker and he made me really uncomfortable. He kept calling God/Heavenly Father just 'Father' and while that sounded odd to me, what really bothered me what how he kept referencing us becoming gods and goddesses in the afterlife.

Eeeek!

Originally Posted by fiona84

I have always had a hard time with this doctrine. When he spoke, I felt awful. I felt uncomortable, like a jolt of annoyance shot through me. I saw a few people give eachother 'looks', as well.

To make it worse I had my nonmember, investigating husband with me who has no idea what any of that means.

I left in a bad mood after Relief Society. That doctrine is really a testimony killer for me. I just cannot believe that we will become gods and goddesses, it seems really blasphemus and counter to what is taught in the scriptures.

I hate having these doubts about god-hood, and I have prayed and prayed but I cannot feel the spirit when praying about this.

I know what you mean. It's a old Christian doctrine that has been de-empasized by the other churches, if not flat-out denied, for just the same reason. Here's a good article about the LDS view on this: Deification of man - FAIRMormon

Originally Posted by fiona84

To make it worse I always think of Pres. Hinkley saying "I don't know that we teach that" when asked about the godhood doctrine on Larry King. It seems like even he was uncomfortable with that!

The godhead doctrine spoken of in the interview is "As man is now, God once was; As God is now, man may become". President Hinckley's answer was appropriate because 1/2 of that statement is not found in any scripture, and therefore is not taught in the Church as doctrine. Or, shouldn't be!

The idea of men becoming as God is VERY scriptural and doctrinal. OTOH, we have nothing on what God was like before He was God. Here is the official blurb from the Church on what is and what is not doctrine: Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom Good stuff.

Originally Posted by fiona84

I sincerely would like some help with this. What do you guys think? When was this first taught and how can it be compatable with us believing in God and Christ? Maybe some history will make me feel better?

As far as I know, Joseph Smith taught this first in his King Follett sermon in 1844. I believe it, though it's hard to know. I dunno. Someday, though, I will know. 'Til then, I'm good. I know Joseph was a prophet.


HiJolly

[Misshalfway]

ETA: When do members first get taught this? I never heard a thing about it until I was past YW, and that bothers me. It certainly wasn't mentioned when I got the discussions and the whole 'secrecy' about it makes me dislike it even more.

It isn't a secret. Ok? Stuff like this shouldn't and won't be made part of any youth manual. I have heard about this since the time of my youth....but I also had a father who loved to read lots of member authored books on this subject and many others.

But I was always taught the difference between revealed doctrine and speculation. That is why you haven't perhaps been exposed to it. It is speculation.....and if you want to learn about it you can.

[truthwalker]

It is clear that we believe God once was a man and that we shall become Gods and that there are several Gods out there, The elite of the universe. And to me this makes perfectly sense. God is like us, he is our father. In fact. God and his wife landed on earth. His wife was pregnant with Adam and she gave birth. Adam and Eve grew up and eventually got married. So Adam is literally the Son of God like Jesus Christ was. But Adam was the son of two Gods. Elohim and his wife. Jesus was halfblood. He was the son of God and the son of Mary, a human being. But because Adam fell and became a mortal man. After the fall he was weaker than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ received blood from a human descendant from the fallen Adam wich was Mary and she was mortal and from God wich is immortal. Therefore Jesus could not die only if he allowed it. But Adam on the other way was after the fall fully mortal and died before one day passed of Gods time wich means before 1000 years. Complicated?
Humans is a intelligence form, a spirit form, a terrestrial, telestial and celestial body form. We have different shapes or names and we are masters of the universe. As far as i know. And in the beginning all intelligences were equal. But the most intelligent created laws, and he progressed and became a man, or a spirit. He became the first God. The rest is the beginning of history.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by fiona84

Hi everyone,

Those who know me on here know that I came back to church 'full force' last year after being only semi-active for a few years.

I a convert, a college student who converted when I was 13.

Yesterday at sacrament meeting we had a high council speaker and he made me really uncomfortable. He kept calling God/Heavenly Father just 'Father' and while that sounded odd to me, what really bothered me what how he kept referencing us becoming gods and goddesses in the afterlife.

I have always had a hard time with this doctrine. When he spoke, I felt awful. I felt uncomortable, like a jolt of annoyance shot through me. I saw a few people give eachother 'looks', as well.

To make it worse I had my nonmember, investigating husband with me who has no idea what any of that means.

I left in a bad mood after Relief Society. That doctrine is really a testimony killer for me. I just cannot believe that we will become gods and goddesses, it seems really blasphemus and counter to what is taught in the scriptures.

I hate having these doubts about god-hood, and I have prayed and prayed but I cannot feel the spirit when praying about this.

To make it worse I always think of Pres. Hinkley saying "I don't know that we teach that" when asked about the godhood doctrine on Larry King. It seems like even he was uncomfortable with that!

I sincerely would like some help with this. What do you guys think? When was this first taught and how can it be compatable with us believing in God and Christ? Maybe some history will make me feel better?

ETA: When do members first get taught this? I never heard a thing about it until I was past YW, and that bothers me. It certainly wasn't mentioned when I got the discussions and the whole 'secrecy' about it makes me dislike it even more.

How do you address GOD in your personal prayers? I call HIM FATHER. It is still a sign of respect and honor. As you do with your earthly parents. Now, becoming like HIM is not a problem for me since I am a convert also but comes with a confirmation by the Holy Ghost to this personal understanding. It is not secret or blasphemy, but this is what the Godhead wants for all of us to achieve in this life. In drawing analogy, it is no difference from what our earthly parents would want for us in taking over the family business.

[Misshalfway]

[quote=truthwalker;248496
It is clear that we believe God once was a man and that we shall become Gods and that there are several Gods out there, The elite of the universe. And to me this makes perfectly sense. God is like us, he is our father. In fact. God and his wife landed on earth. His wife was pregnant with Adam and she gave birth. Adam and Eve grew up and eventually got married. So Adam is literally the Son of God like Jesus Christ was. But Adam was the son of two Gods. Elohim and his wife. Jesus was halfblood. He was the son of God and the son of Mary, a human being. But because Adam fell and became a mortal man. After the fall he was weaker than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ received blood from a human descendant from the fallen Adam wich was Mary and she was mortal and from God wich is immortal. Therefore Jesus could not die only if he allowed it. But Adam on the other way was after the fall fully mortal and died before one day passed of Gods time wich means before 1000 years. Complicated?
Humans is a intelligence form, a spirit form, a terrestrial, telestial and celestial body form. We have different shapes or names and we are masters of the universe. As far as i know. And in the beginning all intelligences were equal. But the most intelligent created laws, and he progressed and became a man, or a spirit. He became the first God. The rest is the beginning of history.[/QUOTE]

Yes...that term "god" and "gods" is used. But beyond that do we really know what that means????? I mean in terms of scripture. The scriptures you sight only show me a map of eternal progression.

And until today......I have never heard that God and his wife landed and gave birth to Adam. Very interesting........ideas here. Very nervous about them being shared as doctrine.

[Hemidakota]

That was revealed by President Young and Elder Parley P. Pratt - Adam story. Eve was also brought here.

Question here...What is doctrine? Does it need to be in the scriptures? Is the scripture complete today? When spoken upon the influence of the HG, is that consider doctrine? How do we test on what we received by the hand of the servants of the Lord?

[prisonchaplain]

I do not have much difficulty believing we shall be come god-like. After all, we will be glorified, and we will rule and reign with Christ. However, can I expect to some day have subjects that worship me? To me, such a belief would cross the line. Even if I remain a subject to my Heavenly Father, and continue to worship him throughout eternity, if I also believe I shall receive worship...that seems blasphemous to me. At least one LDS member has publically posted that such is unthinkable, and seems blasphemous too. Perhaps this is an area of speculation, but many non-LDS believe this is standard LDS teaching--that members expect to become Gods.

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

That was revealed by President Young and Elder Parley P. Pratt - Adam story. Eve was also brought here.

Question here...What is doctrine? Does it need to be in the scriptures? Is the scripture complete today? When spoken upon the influence of the HG, is that consider doctrine? How do we test on what we received by the hand of the servants of the Lord?

Where Hemi... if you would be so kind.

It is my understanding that we don't know the process by which Adam came to this planet. And I think statements like this make my point. Perhaps Brigham wrote and pondered about such ideas. But these are not our canonized teachings.

This young woman comes here with a concern. A valid concern....and this is how we answer her? I think this is what happens. People start studying this stuff and marinating in it and the doctrinal lines get awfully blurry.

The best advice I can give the OP is to follow the Spirit of the Father and stick to the basics. These are questions that we perhaps will get answers to only after this life is over.