Does the Church Endorse a Specific Geography for the Book of Mormon?

[livy111us]

Originally Posted by tubaloth

How did you reach this conclusion? How do you know that what Mormon is righting about is from HIS time, not the time of Alma, Helaman and Nephi?

As I said, it has been argued that this is the case, and believe it is a possibility. In Alma 22, after there is much mention geography, Mormon says

"And now I, after having said this, return again to the account of Ammon and Aaron, Omner and Himni, and their brethren."

Now, whether Mormon was just re-iterating what was written on the plates concerning geography, or he was going into geographical detail where the plates did not so we would understand better, we may never know. But the possibility is there.

Scholar Larry Poulsen explains a bit of it here:
Mormon Apologetics & Discussion Board -> Mormon’s Map And Real World Three Dimensional Geog

[livy111us]

Originally Posted by tubaloth

It is surprising how many questions have already been answered before. Things like Evolution, to places in the book of mormon to if Holy Ghost well get a body. The same questions come up again and again. Reading through Joseph Fielding Smiths "Answers to Gospel Questions" published in the 50s are still the same questions today!

President Smith did answer many questions, but the important question must be asked, was he speaking for the Church? Is it doctrine? ATGQ is not considered doctrine and past leaders have had varying opinions on these controversial subjects. Until something is revealed as doctrine, I am sure there will be plenty of other conjecture on these and other topics.

[livy111us]

Originally Posted by Islander

That is certainly an assertion that can be argued. I spent over 10 years roaming the jungles in Central America and except the rivers that remain more or less in the same place, vegetation, topography and other geographical landmarks can change and dramatically from year to year. Hurricanes, mud slides, volcanic eruptions and floods change the landscape in hours. Many times we arrived at a specific point and scratched our heads for 10 minutes trying to figure out where such and such landmark went!!!

The descriptions in the BoM are sufficiently vague as to avoid any definitive identification of specific landmarks, with rare exceptions. Even in Israel, where people have been digging up and scratching the rocks for 100 years we are not totally sure where some stuff is.

That is interesting Islander. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of landmarks were no longer there? I agree that some things can disappear (and have), but I believe the major ones, more or less, are generally the same. But I could be wrong. Until we KNOW where the BOM happened, it is nothing but guessing on our part.

[skalenfehl]

Here's a very interesting site:

Book of Mormon Geography

There are many very intriguing photographs that seem to prove civilizations had long been buried in the "sea" which we know as the Caribbean Sea. What if the entire area was once land populated by the Nephites and Lamanites? Seems there is more evidence to indicate that the entire sea area from Venezuela to Florida shows the Dominican Republic, Cuba, etc was once above water where structures are being found today. Click the "Supporting Evidences" to see all the pictures.

Here are a couple points of what could be considered positions taken by the church. I don't know if they have been verified, though:

Q. What is the church’s position on Book of Mormon geography?
A. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints takes no official position on the geography detailed in the Book of Mormon. They do put forth the position that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is where Joseph Smith retrieved the gold plates that were buried by Moroni. They say this is the same hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon where the last great battle of the Lamanites and Nephites took place.

Q. Did Joseph Smith say anything about the geography in the Book of Mormon?
A. Yes. He did say that:

* Lehi sailed from the Middle East and landed in the Americas a little south of the Isthmus of Darien, Panama. It is about 40 miles across whereas the Panama canal is 37 miles.
* He said that the ruins of Quirigua, Guatemala was surely from Nephite origin.
* He said that the Jaredites settled in Aztalan, Wisconsin. This is an archeological site similar to the thousands found in the Mississippi valley region attributed to the Mound Builders of North America. The site contains three small stepped pyramidal mounds located between Milwaukee and Madison. It was named by judge N. F. Hyer who surveyed the site in 1837. The Aztecs had a tradition that their ancestors came from a country at the north, which they called Aztalan and since they looked to be of Aztec origin, the name of Aztalan was given.
* Joseph stated that a skeleton found by Zion’s Camp in southern Illinois was a Lamanite warrior by the name of Zelph. Zelph was a chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, whose fame was known from the Hill Cumorah or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains. Joseph also said that an arrow had killed Zelph during the last great struggle between the Lamanites and Nephites. This had been shown to him of the Almighty.

There's quite a bit of information on the site. So can it be verified that the Hill Cumorah in New York is not the same as in the Book of Mormon?

[HoosierGuy]

If there was solid scientific evidence on where the events of the Book of Mormon took place then there would be no need for Faith with regards to that and Faith is something Heavenly Father wants us to have.

I know the Prophets and people in the Book of Mormon walked and lived in the Americas. I don’t need any evidence except the Holy Ghost to tell me this is true and I know it is true.

[changed]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Meridian Magazine :: Answers to Critics: Does the Church Endorse a Specific Geography for the Book of Mormon?

Article snippet: A sample of writings by Church leaders and members through out its history, illustrates that debate and discussion about Book of Mormon geography has been very free, precisely because there was no revealed or "authoritative" geography model.

This article only talks about the "new" world. The old world geography does seem to be established... I mean there is no doubt about where Jerusalem is, also Nahom and Bountiful are rather obvious... watch the vids

Book of Mormon geography/Old World - FAIRMormon

not on the bountiful vid -
Mormanity - A Mormon Blog: Iron Ore Near Bountiful
(Iron age came after copper / bronze age because of the very high melting temp of iron, and difficulty in refining it. A specific type of iron ore is found near bountiful that can be molten over a campfire - remember the tools Nephi makes? Anyways, more evidence for bountiful)

Also interesting
Meridian Magazine :: Articles Book of Mormon Names Among the Lihyanites in Arabia
Lihyanite tribe - came into existence the same time Lehi and family were making their journey to Bountiful, seems Lehi might have been doing a little preaching along the way... names Lehi, Nephi, and Sam inscribed on walls along Arabian peninsula, and an entire tribe that still exists named themselves after Lehi? Interesting stuff!

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

If there was solid scientific evidence on where the events of the Book of Mormon took place then there would be no need for Faith with regards to that and Faith is something Heavenly Father wants us to have.

I know the Prophets and people in the Book of Mormon walked and lived in the Americas. I don’t need any evidence except the Holy Ghost to tell me this is true and I know it is true.

I agree, this stuff is not what a testimony is made of... but really fun to see some of the spots described, get a better feel for the BoM by learning the time period, what people/cities of the time were like etc...

[bytor2112]

Does the church endorse Missouri.....Adam-ondi-ahman....as the Garden of Eden?

[Hemidakota]

Yes!

[livy111us]

FAIR has done an excellent review of a popular theory out there, saying that DNA, Joseph Smith, etc... prove the BOM to have happened in North America. This is an EXTREMELY flawed argument. You can read the review, which is only an abbreviated version of what was actually written, here:

Reviews of DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by skalenfehl

Here's a very interesting site:


* He said that the Jaredites settled in Aztalan, Wisconsin. This is an archeological site similar to the thousands found in the Mississippi valley region attributed to the Mound Builders of North America. The site contains three small stepped pyramidal mounds located between Milwaukee and Madison. It was named by judge N. F. Hyer who surveyed the site in 1837. The Aztecs had a tradition that their ancestors came from a country at the north, which they called Aztalan and since they looked to be of Aztec origin, the name of Aztalan was given.
* Joseph stated that a skeleton found by Zion’s Camp in southern Illinois was a Lamanite warrior by the name of Zelph. Zelph was a chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, whose fame was known from the Hill Cumorah or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains. Joseph also said that an arrow had killed Zelph during the last great struggle between the Lamanites and Nephites. This had been shown to him of the Almighty.[/COLOR]

There's quite a bit of information on the site. So can it be verified that the Hill Cumorah in New York is not the same as in the Book of Mormon?

There are differing accounts of the Zelph story. Only later stories state that he lived during the last great struggle between the Lamanites and Nephites. So the story could be only partially correct.

Joseph Smith also wrote once that the city of Zarahemla would be found in modern day Central America (Honduras or Guatemala, I can't recall which). This would suggest that he had rejected the concept of the narrow neck of land being in Panama.....