Does the Church Endorse a Specific Geography for the Book of Mormon?

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Does the church endorse Missouri.....Adam-ondi-ahman....as the Garden of Eden?

Adam-Ondi-Ahman was NOT the Garden of Eden. It was the place Adam dwelt in after being expulsed from the Garden.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Originally Posted by BenRaines

No they do not.

Ben Raines

There is one piece of Book of Mormon geography in the America's that theChurch DOES take a specific stance on. That is the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York.

The First Presidency has stated that the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York is the same Hill Cummorah as spoken of in the Book of Mormon.

Of course, intellectually, this poses profound archeological problems.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Originally Posted by Prodigal_Son

I agree. If we were to label sites, we'd have so many Mormon archaeological digs, it'd be ridiculous. People'd be hunting for proof in the ground, instead of in the scriptures...

I don't agree. I think it is appropriate to approach the testable claims of the Book of Mormon as such.

For instance, the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York has been declared by the First Presidency as the same as the one in the Book of Mormon.

Given that stance, it is reasonable to ask why there is absolutely no evidence for the massive (largest in known in human history) battles that took place near that location.

The bloodiest battle in human history took place there. That is a testable claim.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

The Church maintains that the Book of Mormon took place "on the American continent" but beyond that there are no specifics. Also, I believe that in most places outside of the the USA, North and South America are lumped together.

No specifics, with one exception. The Hill Cummorah. We know the precise location of that important Book of Mormon landmark where the bloodiest battle in human history took place.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Originally Posted by skalenfehl

Here's a very interesting site:

Book of Mormon Geography

There are many very intriguing photographs that seem to prove civilizations had long been buried in the "sea" which we know as the Caribbean Sea. What if the entire area was once land populated by the Nephites and Lamanites? Seems there is more evidence to indicate that the entire sea area from Venezuela to Florida shows the Dominican Republic, Cuba, etc was once above water where structures are being found today. Click the "Supporting Evidences" to see all the pictures.

Here are a couple points of what could be considered positions taken by the church. I don't know if they have been verified, though:

Q. What is the church’s position on Book of Mormon geography?
A. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints takes no official position on the geography detailed in the Book of Mormon. They do put forth the position that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is where Joseph Smith retrieved the gold plates that were buried by Moroni. They say this is the same hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon where the last great battle of the Lamanites and Nephites took place.

Q. Did Joseph Smith say anything about the geography in the Book of Mormon?
A. Yes. He did say that:

* Lehi sailed from the Middle East and landed in the Americas a little south of the Isthmus of Darien, Panama. It is about 40 miles across whereas the Panama canal is 37 miles.
* He said that the ruins of Quirigua, Guatemala was surely from Nephite origin.
* He said that the Jaredites settled in Aztalan, Wisconsin. This is an archeological site similar to the thousands found in the Mississippi valley region attributed to the Mound Builders of North America. The site contains three small stepped pyramidal mounds located between Milwaukee and Madison. It was named by judge N. F. Hyer who surveyed the site in 1837. The Aztecs had a tradition that their ancestors came from a country at the north, which they called Aztalan and since they looked to be of Aztec origin, the name of Aztalan was given.
* Joseph stated that a skeleton found by Zion’s Camp in southern Illinois was a Lamanite warrior by the name of Zelph. Zelph was a chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, whose fame was known from the Hill Cumorah or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains. Joseph also said that an arrow had killed Zelph during the last great struggle between the Lamanites and Nephites. This had been shown to him of the Almighty.

There's quite a bit of information on the site. So can it be verified that the Hill Cumorah in New York is not the same as in the Book of Mormon?

The First Presidency has stated that the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York is the Hill Cummorah of the Book of Mormon.

[poulsenll]

Originally Posted by JohnBirchSociety

The First Presidency has stated that the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York is the Hill Cummorah of the Book of Mormon.

When and where. There was a letter written by the secretary to the First Presidency. The following is the exact text.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Office of the First Presidency Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
October 16, 1990
Bishop Darrel L. Brooks Moore Ward Oklahoma City Oklahoma South Stake 1000 Windemere Moore, OK 73160
Dear Bishop Brooks:
I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place.
The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.
The Brethren appreciate your assistance in responding to this inquiry, and asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study.
Sincerely yours, (signed) F. Michael Watson Secretary to the First Presidency

Nothing in this letter says that the First Presidency stated that the hill in New York was the same as the one in the book of Mormon. The statement is that the church has long maintained this concept. This is a generalized statement and does not specify the First Presidency. Church includes all the membership and it is true that most members even today maintain this concept. That does not make it true and above all does not make it revelatory.

This letter was later clarified by the same secretary.

Bro. Watson seems to have been speaking on his own understanding of the matter, and not as an official declaration of Church policy. In 1993, he sent a clarification letter:
The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site.For more info and discussion

Book of Mormon geography/Statements/First Presidency Letter - FAIRMormon

This letter is often used and misquoted to support a North American location for the Book of Mormon events. Many Church leaders have supported a NA location for Book of Mormoon events. Many others have also supported a Mesoamerican location. All this tells us is that Church leaders have their own ideas with respect to not revealed concepts of interest to members of the Church.

The only revealed information that we have about Book of Mormon geography is found in the Wentworth letter (that it occurred on the American continent) and the text of the Book of Mormon itself (translated by Joseph Smith Jr by the gift and power of God).

Instead of relying on the opinions of others, take the time and make the effort to study it out for yourselves by correlating the over 500 descriptions of the geograpy found in the text of the Book of Mormon. It is not an easy task but scholars like Sorenson have made the effort and published their results and opinions. I have spent over 15 years, starting where Sorenson left off and still have not finished.

Good luck in your studies of the Book of Mormon.

Larry P

[rameumptom]

Actually, the Hill Cumorah in New York was first named that by Oliver Cowdery, who assumed it was the same one. All we know is this is the hill where Moroni buried the plates for Joseph Smith to discover centuries later.

But internal evidence of the book of Mormon suggests it isn't the Hill Cumorah where the final battle occurred (see Mor 6:6).

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by JohnBirchSociety

The First Presidency has stated that the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York is the Hill Cummorah of the Book of Mormon.

That is not correct statement. Neither did Joseph Smith claimed the same. As Ram mentioned, it was other members who gave it the name, thinking, it was the same hill mentioned in the BoM.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by JohnBirchSociety

The First Presidency has stated that the Hill Cummorah in Up-State New York is the Hill Cummorah of the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith never called it the "Hill Cummorah". It is not. Please provide a reference to support your claims.

Don't believe everything you read or hear.


HiJolly