Word of Wisdom and Vegetarianism

[bodhigirlsmiles]

good morning! i have a question for anyone who cares to answer. i received a copy of the word of wisdom from a friend, and i find it to be a very beautiful document! many of the items mentioned within the body of the text are things i follow every day as a buddhist. i took a vow many years ago to refrain from intoxicating substances, and i believe, if i am reading the word of wisdom correctly, this is prohibited for lds people as well. i have a question about a certain portion of the word of wisdom....

and again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

all grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

and these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

all grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

and all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

and shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

and shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.


my first question is this....are lds people vegetarians or vegans? i had never heard this, but i was curious. as a strict buddhist, i do not eat animal flesh of any kind (including oceanic life).

my second question is....where it says, "health in their navel and marrow to their bones," what does this mean? sorry if that is a stupid question!

[bodhigirlsmiles]

i just now saw that there is another thread called "word of wisdom"....i apologize for not posting there with my thread!

[Truegrits]

my first question is this....are lds people vegetarians or vegans? i had never heard this, but i was curious. as a strict buddhist, i do not eat animal flesh of any kind (including oceanic life).

No, LDS (as a group) are not vegetarians. The ones I know eat meat as much as most Americans. I am from the south, and people here pretty much eat meat at every meal, and most of it is fried.
(BTW...I am a vegetarian, and LDS)

[bodhigirlsmiles]

Originally Posted by Truegrits

No, LDS (as a group) are not vegetarians. The ones I know eat meat as much as most Americans. I am from the south, and people here pretty much eat meat at every meal, and most of it is fried.
(BTW...I am a vegetarian, and LDS)

thank you for your answer. i want to ask my next question delicately, as i do NOT wish to offend but am sincerely curious....

how can the sections of the word of wisdom be interpreted as other than to mean that meat is not to be eaten (except during famine, etc)?

or is it that the parts about not drinking strong drinks or using tobacco, for example, are more weighty than the others?

again, i hope i am not causing offense, i am just curious.

truegrits....do you find it difficult being a vegetarian in a largely meat-eating environment?

[Elgama]

Its a personal decision - personally I do what it says and eat only a little meat try to keep it to the Winter, I can't eat meat when I see the animal trucks going past my windows. Plus we are healthier when meat is an occasional treat, less colds, more energy, less bad tempered. Which I guess is part of the promise coming to bear.

-Charley

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

D&C 89 seems clear enough: meat "should not be used, only in times of winter/cold/famine".

So, going directly to LDS.com and looking up the chapter, here's what you'll see:




Note the comma after the phrase "should not be used".

Compare that with a copy of the same section, out of an original 1835 Book of Commandments:




Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence.

The original text reads 'They should not be used only in times of winter/cold/famine'. In other words, anyone telling you meat is only for winter/cold/famine isn't telling you what the Lord thinks.

Compare to D&C 49:18-19 "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance."

See, back in Joseph Smith's day, there was indeed a sort of 'religious diet fad' of the day, advocating limiting or eliminating meats from our diet. D&C 49 explicitly counters this idea. The original Book of Commandments Word of Wisdom section explicitly counters this idea. Somewhere, as we fallible humans added verse structure and tried to publish new editions, a comma crept in, and made it harder to understand.

This line of reasoning sort of springs from me here. I haven't heard anyone else mention this comma - certainly I've not heard any church leader mention it. So take my post for what it's worth - the opinion of some random Loudmouth Mormon. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'm certainly willing to change my tune.

(Unfortunately for us all-you-can-eat buffet lovers, the word "sparingly" seems consistent, unambiguous, clear, and unchanged.)

LM

[Elgama]

Originally Posted by bodhigirlsmiles

thank you for your answer. i want to ask my next question delicately, as i do NOT wish to offend but am sincerely curious....

how can the sections of the word of wisdom be interpreted as other than to mean that meat is not to be eaten (except during famine, etc)?

or is it that the parts about not drinking strong drinks or using tobacco, for example, are more weighty than the others?

again, i hope i am not causing offense, i am just curious.

truegrits....do you find it difficult being a vegetarian in a largely meat-eating environment?

Basically and it does say in the section or the heading - section 89 is a guideline - later tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol and misuse of drugs became commandments. The advice and the promises still stand but they are guidelines.

As Latter Day Saints there is a lot to do and learn we recognise we are human or should do and that we can only learn a bit at a time - less meat, eating healthily was something I learned because I have Fibromyalgia.

We have some things we absolutely have to do but others its better if we do for example for years I didn't keep a journal despite being seriously advised to by the prophets now I do I understand the importance of one.
-Charley

[Truegrits]

true rits....do you find it difficult being a vegetarian in a largely meat-eating environment?

Here, in Georgia, yes! At all the Church functions, I will be the only one with a meatless main dish......even the potatoes will have ham or bacon in them!
In south Florida, with a more varied population, there was not the problem; more vegetarians there.

[MarginOfError]

Taking this discussion to include a broader range of scripture, from the New Testament we have

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Tim 4:1-5, emphasis added)

I've seen some instances within the Church where the debate about eating meat has gotten quite heated. My wife attended a seminar at Stake Women's Conference last year that bluntly stated that meat is against the Word of Wisdom. She even went so far as to say that even vegetarians don't strictly adhere to the Word of Wisdom, and that vegan is the way to go. I'm certain she can't say that doctrinally, and she seems to be a bit of an extremist to me, but I won't argue there is something to be said for abstaining from meat.

From my personal observations and study, I've noticed that not all vegetarians are particularly healthy. I've even heard it said that if you want to see a really sick person, go to a health food store. The issue, as I see it, is that there are certain nutrients that we need that are conveniently found in meat, and less conveniently found in other sources.

The bottom line for me is this: we need our bodies to be healthy, and that includes getting a good balance of vitamins, minerals, proteins, and fats. It is possible to get these solely from non-animal sources, but generally requires more study, effort, and dedication. If a person can and is willing to put forth the extra effort to maintain their health on non-animal sources, then they should do so, and I do not doubt they will receive great blessings for doing so. For others who lack the motivation, knowledge, or capacity to learn or abide by vegetarianism, eating meat as part of a properly balanced diet is an easy way to obtain the proteins and fats required for good health.

I do not, under any circumstances, place one lifestyle above the other in righteousness.

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by Loudmouth_Mormon

Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence....


This line of reasoning sort of springs from me here. I haven't heard anyone else mention this comma - certainly I've not heard any church leader mention it. So take my post for what it's worth - the opinion of some random Loudmouth Mormon. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'm certainly willing to change my tune.

LM

I appreciate the knowledge. I would be hesitant to base an argument on that as it was the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve who approved the printing of the current addition with the comma in place.

For all I know, the extra comma was an oversight, but I'm just not ready to base my entire explanation on that.

I do agree with everything else you said!