The Nation of Deseret

[Just_A_Guy]

Not wishing to be rude, deseretgov, but I looked at the Nation of Deseret's store and noticed the "flag" on the merchandise that you're selling. Does Mike Jensen know that the "Nation of Deseret" is using his copyrighted flag design (or a pretty obvious derivative thereof) for its own commercial profit?

[deseretgov]

Well the NoD is kind of going back to the drawing board for now. But the NoD flag does have some similarities to the Mormon Heritage Flag but there are some distinct differences. The central portion of the NoD flag is centered while the central portion of the MH flag is offset to the left. The MH flag has two thin blue cricles that surround the star. the NoD flag has one thick blue circle with fifty embattlements along the inside edge of the circle. Both Flags contain a twelve pointed star in the center of the circle. However the star of the MH flag has hollow rays with a blue line down the center of each ray. The NoD flag has solid rays and also has the white outline of the Star of David in the center of the larger star.

It is obvious that the two flags are similar but they are clearly NOT the same flag.

[deseretgov]

rayhale, I am currently rewriting the NoD website. The result, while using the same template, will be vastely different than the current website.

[Justice]

I think it's unfortunate that this thread seems to be misleading some newer members of the Church into thinking this is something they can join and still be a part of God's kingdom.

I think it should be removed.

[gabelpa]

I have felt from the start that this NoD is a hairbrained scheme, with little planning and no legal consultation. The flag must have review by a copyright lawyer or two to make sure it is not infringing. Land appropriation needs a legal review, as Imminent Domain doesn't work the other way.

It seems like there are very many pie in the sky ideas with little forethought as to how things will proceed. There is definately no Church backing as the Prophet has not even been formally approached concerning your efforts. If he were, I am fairly certain those wishing to organise and join the NoD would be warned away from such actions.

[Justice]

... and possibly excommunicated if they joined.

[deseretgov]

Don't worry. From what I've been in on, many of these problems will be taken care of in the upcoming months.

[gabelpa]

Make sure that you publish the legal findings on the web site, both as a transcript and as a downloadable PDF so we can verify that the documents are from a verifiable source. I'd be especially interestedin the letter from the Prophet.

[Just_A_Guy]

From what I've been in on, many of these problems will be taken care of in the upcoming months.

Re the flag design--copyright law also covers derivative works. In other words, you can't take an existing copyrighted image (as NoD has apparently done, based on your very thorough knowledge of the "differences" between the two designs) and reverse-engineer it in an attempt to make it "different enough" to skirt the existing copyright. You're going to have to start from scratch.

I won't even get into the question of why anyone should subject themselves to a "government" whose first action has been to appropriate the property of an individual without that individual's consent or compensation.

[gabelpa]

Don't forget the fair use loopholes, i.e. parody, but I don't think claiming the NoD flag to be a parody would fly.