Pre-life - Standing on the fence?

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Past Apostles and Prophets have spoken regarding the less valiant of the pre-existence. People born in different places and different times in not so favorable circumstances could be attributed to how valiant one was in the pre-existence and I am of the opinion that there were many who were fence sitters......lots of people who just don't care.

I've often thought about many of the truly "evil" people in this world (the everyday murderers as well as the Hitlers and the Stalins and the Mussolinis, etc.). It is my own personal musing to wonder if there are people in this world who chose to follow Christ's plan solely because they recognized that getting a body and ending up in the Telestial Kingdom was still better than not getting a body and ending up with Satan. Not because they agreed with Christ's plan, but solely for the purpose of obtaining a body.

[bytor2112]

I think you nailed it Wingnut........I also think it is why there are so many in the world that just don't care about anything...but themselves. But how well does Heavenly Father know his children...hence Three degrees of glory. He obviously knew that some were leaving....never to return.

[jadams_4040]

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

I know those of use with bodies here on earth stood on the side of Heavenly Father and Jesus in the pre-life. I know if we would have stood with Lucifer we would be here with no body but only an evil spirit.

There is something I'm confused on: in the pre-life were there some that did not take sides or stood on the fence, not on one side or the other?

Because I'm here on earth and have a body, does that mean with no doubt that I stood on the side of Heavenly Father?

Sometimes I think I stood on the fence line and that causes me to feel bad and say to myself - I have to do everything I can to show Father I stand on his side. Other times I know I stood with Father and Jesus. I know I try to stand with them now.

Because I was not born into an lds family but am a convert, does that mean I stood on the fence line? I was born into a caring and loving family tho.

Did everyone here with a body stand with Father and Jesus? Even the really bad people like dictators and murderers?

Thanks

I dont think you stood on the fence at all; I think you have been very blessed with wonderfull understandings and opportunities. and besides that , i beleive there were none that stood on the fence, it was either one way or the other. we either accepted the plan, or denied to follow. there wasnt anything in between.

[Justice]

Originally Posted by Traveler

The scriptures tell us that a third part of heaven followed Lucifer. There is a little bit of misunderstanding of ancient terminology here. The ancients did not understand fractions. This third part does not mean 1/3 of heaven. What it tells us that that the pre-existence was divided into 3 parts and one part followed Satan.

Very interesting. I never considered that before. I'll have to ponder on that. It makes sense.

[jjrogers]

When I was on my mission, I taught a girl that was told in her gift of the holy ghost blessing that she had been promised in the pre mortal life that she would be able to have the gosple and that the sisters who made those promises had kept them. So I know that being a convert can mean that you were promised the gosple.

Second, I think that we have an equal ability when it come to being wicked or righteous. So when I think of evil dictators, I think about how righteous they could have been if they had chosen that. I don't think there were fence sitters. I think the fight was bad enough that everyone chose sides. I think everyone cared about the fight. I think satan would like us to think that we were fence sitters so that he make us feel down and depressed. I truly think it is actually an attack from satan.

[Maya]

Interesting one of 3 groups.....
IMHO
I think no one was on sitting fence, but some of us were a bit uncertain what to follow. We did make up our mind about beeing born here and holding on the Plan of JK and G. Some of us ... like I said were a bit uncertain, maybe even not really cared.

In my PB it says I chose to be here at this time, when the gospel is here at its full. I dont know, I am sorry but I cant help crying as I think of this. I am so sure I was with JK, I was not doubting. Ever since I learned about JK I felt wery strongly that he takes care of me and guides me and I want him to be my best friend. But I was not born in a good family. In fact I was not born in any family at all! However I was adopted to a good family, none of these has so far become LDS. So could it be that I was a doubter in pre-exictence? I dont by that consept that says, that the strongest spirits are born in LDS families. If it were so, so why the best spirits would be born almost only in USA especially earlier?

I believe there are many good strong spirits born in LDS families, maybe even some really good and tender ones, who NEED to be sheltered, who have been so good in pre-exictence, that G would hate to loose them. But I dont think G plays favorites. He palys on our devolepment. I believe, that even a profet could be born in a non member family IF that would help him ot develope those skills he needs to develope.

I believe strong good spirits are spread everywhere, spirits that are to help others there where they live to find LDS Church and I believe I am one of those spirits, that wanted to help gathering everyone under my Fathers wings. I also believe many such people are born in Africa, Asia,... everywhere and we who are so lucky to have the gospel in our families we have the responsibility to go find those men and women. To reach out our hand and help them home!

Adversary is truely everywhere. It wont sleep, it is only waiting for a moment, one small moment, that can lame us, that can destroy us or the person who is waiting for the truth. Adversary has many ways of doing his works. One of his favorites is to hit the person inderectly. Fex through gavernements, through laws, through "common sence" or "Common practice" even through those dearest to you, through loss. How many flames have been put down by a sudden loss, loss of a child, loss of a spouse, loss of....

For many years now I been feeling that my hands are tied behind my back. And there was nothing I could do about it. I could have left the sceen, but that had not helped much, the show had gone on without me. Or I could have moved ... USA.... that had not taken the past away. Ater 15 years, now I got one hand loose.
There is so much I should do. Someone says what I do is "good work", but I still feel it is not enough. I have NOT reached my goals. I am far back the scedule. Fear is my enemy, fear of past. Dont ever let that happen to you!

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Unfortunately, we don't know a whole lot about the pre-existence. This is a great discussion topic that you bring up, though. First I'd like to address this question:
I don't think that really has anything to do with it. As an example: Does that mean that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and several other prophets were "fence-sitters" as well? You may respond that the Church wasn't restored yet when they were born, so it's not an accurate comparison. What about Elder Uchtdorf?

Okay, as for the rest of your inquiry, allow me to share with you the Doctrine of Wingnut. I like to think of the "war in heaven" as a high school football game.

• You have the players on the team (those who were super-valiant)
• You have the coach (Jesus Christ)
• You have the cheerleaders and the kids sitting in the first few rows on the 50-yard line (these are the cheerleaders and/or the people right behind the super-valiant front-liners)
• You have the people who sit on the top row of the stadium eating nachos and hot dogs, talking with each other, but not really paying attention (might this be some of us?)
• You have the rebels who are smoking pot under the bleachers (these might be the dictators and murderers you spoke of, but they still showed up)
• You have everyone in between (I suspect that this is the population of the world at large)
• You have the visiting team, and their lame-o fans on the other side of the field (Satan and the third part that fell away)

None of us really know which group we fell into. Our patriarchal blessings can often give us insight, though.

There is truth to those who were fence sitters...something that requires a personal answer by prayer.

Yes! You can know what your previous position prior to this mortality. It is not from the PB either.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

There is something I'm confused on: in the pre-life were there some that did not take sides or stood on the fence, not on one side or the other?

Sounds like you may be familiar with my theory that coffee and tea plants grew too close to the fence. Not people though, that would be absurd.



Got a kick out of that super-valiant players and the cheerleaders behind them idea:

Lean to the left
Lean to the right
Stand up
Sit down
Fight, Fight, Fight
Yea Super-Valiants!!!

[NateHowe]

If we had remained on the fence, we would not have come here. The sides in that war in Heaven became so far apart, so completely opposite, that we had to consciously choose one or the other. So it may soon become in our society.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Past Apostles and Prophets have spoken regarding the less valiant of the pre-existence. People born in different places and different times in not so favorable circumstances could be attributed to how valiant one was in the pre-existence and I am of the opinion that there were many who were fence sitters......lots of people who just don't care.

Some consider the circumstances into which Jesus was borne (including a society of child abusers) was not very favorable. Let us not use the standards of the world to understand such things.

The Traveler