Pre-life - Standing on the fence?

[HoosierGuy]

I know those of use with bodies here on earth stood on the side of Heavenly Father and Jesus in the pre-life. I know if we would have stood with Lucifer we would be here with no body but only an evil spirit.

There is something I'm confused on: in the pre-life were there some that did not take sides or stood on the fence, not on one side or the other?

Because I'm here on earth and have a body, does that mean with no doubt that I stood on the side of Heavenly Father?

Sometimes I think I stood on the fence line and that causes me to feel bad and say to myself - I have to do everything I can to show Father I stand on his side. Other times I know I stood with Father and Jesus. I know I try to stand with them now.

Because I was not born into an lds family but am a convert, does that mean I stood on the fence line? I was born into a caring and loving family tho.

Did everyone here with a body stand with Father and Jesus? Even the really bad people like dictators and murderers?

Thanks

[deseretgov]

I think that the people who stood on the fence are those with a wicked attitude. I think that Cain was the cut-off point. Cain probably agreed with Lucifer but went to the other side just because. I don't think where we were born in life indicates if we stood on the fence or not. I think it's our attitudes. Those who are more wicked(not sinful, but wicked) are those who probably stood on the fence.

[Wingnut]

Unfortunately, we don't know a whole lot about the pre-existence. This is a great discussion topic that you bring up, though. First I'd like to address this question:

Because I was not born into an lds family but am a convert, does that mean I stood on the fence line?

I don't think that really has anything to do with it. As an example: Does that mean that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and several other prophets were "fence-sitters" as well? You may respond that the Church wasn't restored yet when they were born, so it's not an accurate comparison. What about Elder Uchtdorf?

Okay, as for the rest of your inquiry, allow me to share with you the Doctrine of Wingnut. I like to think of the "war in heaven" as a high school football game.

• You have the players on the team (those who were super-valiant)
• You have the coach (Jesus Christ)
• You have the cheerleaders and the kids sitting in the first few rows on the 50-yard line (these are the cheerleaders and/or the people right behind the super-valiant front-liners)
• You have the people who sit on the top row of the stadium eating nachos and hot dogs, talking with each other, but not really paying attention (might this be some of us?)
• You have the rebels who are smoking pot under the bleachers (these might be the dictators and murderers you spoke of, but they still showed up)
• You have everyone in between (I suspect that this is the population of the world at large)
• You have the visiting team, and their lame-o fans on the other side of the field (Satan and the third part that fell away)

None of us really know which group we fell into. Our patriarchal blessings can often give us insight, though.

[deseretgov]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Our patriarchal blessings can often give us insight, though.

Very true.

[Traveler]

The scriptures tell us that a third part of heaven followed Lucifer. There is a little bit of misunderstanding of ancient terminology here. The ancients did not understand fractions. This third part does not mean 1/3 of heaven. What it tells us that that the pre-existence was divided into 3 parts and one part followed Satan.

So the question is – What are the other two parts? Alma chapter 13 tells us of another part of heaven. They were called the noble and great sons and daughters of G-d. Abraham chapter 3 also talks about the noble and great division. Alma chapter 13 tells us that everyone that is ordained to the Melchizedek on earth was pre-ordained in the pre-existence and was part of the noble and great sons. We also know that all that marry in the temple were also a part of the noble and great sons and daughters.

I know of nothing in the scriptures that names the other part or group. I call them the ones that did not follow Satan and did not seek a calling in the order of Melchizedek for this life.

Personally I do not think there were any “fence sitters”. All that come to earth and get a physical body chose to follow G-d. But as Alma says some exercised more faith.

It is also interesting to note that the children of men (under Noah) are divided into 3 parts as well as the resurrection divides us all into 3 parts or citizens of 3 Kingdoms.

The Traveler

[tubaloth]

The way I have heard the church always explain this, ends up coming from this scripture
Matt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Pretty much no room to sit on the fence.

[MrNirom]

No fence sitting.

But I have my own ideas as to the situations we are born into. Depending on what we desired to learn.. we would and could choose linage. There are many races.. many linages.. each having different challenges and ways of life to experience. The same goes for time periods. "The Plan" was very well thought out and we had our free agency in that plan.

[tomk]

No. The Gospel is exactly the same for everyone.

[MrNirom]

Here is a concept of what others think that happend. This is just FYI.

The Ancient/Ageless Wisdom presents similar concepts but with interesting differences. It goes like this:

In the beginning of creation there were 90 billion monads that were commanded by God to take bodies and evolve through a series of lives upon the earth. One third, or 30 billion refused. They preferred to remain in "pralayic peace" until the "seventh aeon."

In other words, this rebellious third wanted the others go do the hard work, and then when peaceful enlightened conditions were achieved on the earth they would come down and enjoy the fruits of the labor of others.

This did not harmonize with the Great Plan and instead of granting the will of the rebels it is written:

"But the seven great Lords called to the greater Chohans, and with the eternal Lhas of the third cosmic heaven entered into debate.

"The dictum then went forth. The laggards in the highest sphere heard it echo through the scheme. "Not till the seventh aeon, but at the fourteenth seventh will the chance again come round. The first shall be the last and time be lost for aeons."

"The obedient Sons of Mind connected with the Sons of Heart, and evolution spiraled on its way." (Treatise on Cosmic Fire, by Alice A. Bailey, Page 26)

So instead of not participating for seven aeons, these 30 billion souls were denied bodies for 14 times 7 or 98 aeons. This will be billions of years in our time.

[bytor2112]

Past Apostles and Prophets have spoken regarding the less valiant of the pre-existence. People born in different places and different times in not so favorable circumstances could be attributed to how valiant one was in the pre-existence and I am of the opinion that there were many who were fence sitters......lots of people who just don't care.