Do you really concur with these statements?

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

I am appreciative of those who have brought up conflicting statements of your leaders saying it is folly to blindly follow a man, shows you have at least pondered the issue.

Now, there are some who say, "We should follow them obediently, receiving a witness of the Spirit". Perhaps you should read the full extant of HCK quote, where he says it is wrong to wait for a revelation or by the Spirit you should do as your told no matter what it is. The JOD is easy enough to find online.

These conflicting teachings (amoung others) are reasons why I could no longer in good faith be a member of the LDS Church. You never know what is going to be taught next.

It does not appear to me that you have pondered anything but what you have been spoon fed by someone (most likely an organization specializing in religious bigotry) that really does not like the LDS people. If this is your personal study and you have read the entire Journal of Discourses and all the “Ward Teaching” messages for the last 100 years that would be one thing – but it is my impression that you have not. I apologize in advance if I have underestimated you personal study into LDS material.

I BELIEVE THE ONLY REASON THAT YOU THINK THERE IS CONTRADICTION IS BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING SOMEONE IS TELLING YOU!!!

This is a contradiction of your basic criticism – telling me you are at greater fault then those you would criticize. If you paid any attention to the presidential campaigns you would be aware that whenever a candidate gave a speech that the opposition was able to find “contradictions” within a few hours. That you must go back to over 50 over years to ward teaching material that is out of publication and somewhat unavailable to most of the public to find your contradictions tells me that you have come to this forum unprepared and with great bias.

Let us be honest. How many volumes of the Journal of Discourses have you read? And how many Ward Teaching messages have you read and where did you get them?

The Traveler

[Misshalfway]

I follow the prophets WITH AND BY the help of the Holy Spirit. You see, the Holy Ghost is the key to this whole debate! The Holy Ghost will tell us all things we should do. It will tell us how things really are and how they really will be.

Following the prophet blindly isn't what this church is about in any degree. Following the prophets in faith IS!

Joseph Smith warned the people at Haun's Mill to leave. He didn't say why. They people hesitated to follow the counsel. Maybe it was because the counsel didn't come from a pulpit or wasn't packaged in the form of scripture. And you all know the sad outcome.

Following the wisdom of the prophets is essential. Even with regards to simple things. When I taught at the MTC, I had a minor conflict with one sister who refused to take our her numerous piercings. The rules for dress and grooming were clear. The vision for such rules directly from our highest leaders. And she signed up to serve! Yet, she could not follow the simplest of counsel without resentment.

I think learning to follow our leaders in faith even when we don't see everything that they do IS essential to our growth spiritually. There is safety in the counsel of our prophets. And I have enough faith in them to know that their counsel is something that I can and do trust. And I have the Holy Spirit that testifies to me the truth of that even as I write this.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

So if the prophet tells you that he is reinstituting polygamy and that God has called him to wed your wife and you should be best man at the wedding. You'd happily get divorced and turn up and be best man at the wedding? (see Orson Pratt/Sarah Pratt history, I am not picking sides just saying that might have been a possibility.)

Isn't it wonderful that the Brethren tend to be well seasoned and very mature men, for whom a waning of the flesh means a growth of the spirit.

[Islander]

I suggest we should; at least those who believe in the Restoration, the power of the Priesthood and modern revelation, remember that indeed The Prophet has insight and guidance from the Lord. When we utilize our agency, thought process, ideas and opinions we do so freely but must also be aware that since we ONLY have access to a very small portion of the truth, we should seek to know where GOD's mind is on that particular issue. Sometime "popular wisdom" is no wisdom at all.

Isaiah 8 is instructive. ALL the people were looking for alliances and confederacies in order to withstand the impending invasion of the Assyrians. The Lord says clearly that no matter what they do of and for themselves, strategically, militarily or otherwise they will be broken in pieces and destroyed. There were at the time all sorts of theories about what the nation should do. But "seek ONLY God and thou will be safe" saith the Lord thru His prophet. Hear the prophet and we will be on the right side, heed to his counsel and and we will understand truth and the mind of God.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)"

"Heber C. Kimball, First Councilor to Brigham Young, exhorted the Mormon people to "... learn to do as you are told, ... if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it, none of your business whether it is right or wrong" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.32)."

I have the complete JOD at my disposal so I checked to make sure the Kimball quote is in context.

If not, then ask the Savior whether or not it is. I would expect the same answer.

[Shera]

Well, we have been promised by God that the prophet will never lead us astray. So I do follow the council that is given. However I don't think that means that we can't ask God if it's right and pray to Him to know that the council came from him. For example, I had many friends and family members that had mulitple earrings when Pres. Hinckley came out and said that women should just wear one. Some of them did exactly as they were told and removed them, every one of them has told me that their lives were blessed for obeying, even though they didn't understand or thought that it was silly. Others however did not understand at all and had a hard time with it, one was a seminary teacher and she did not remove her extra pairs of earrings. When her seminary students asked her why she wasn't following the council of the prophet she said that she hadn't recieved her witness yet and that she was praying to understand. A few weeks later she removed the earrings and said that she had recieved her witness. I don't know that I would have done the same thing, but I do know that we are so blessed to recieve personal revelation and that if there is some direction that we are struggling with, we can go to our Father in Heaven and ask him to help us understand. I know that I won't be lead astray if I follow the council of God's prophet on earth.

[Justice]

Here is one of the great mysteries, and it causes people to wonder and second-guess. But, it's an awesome opportunity for us.

When a called and ordained servant of the Lord speaks we should obey. When we do it is the greatest win-win situation known to man. If he is right then we are blessed for our obedience. If he is wrong then it is his fault for speaking incorrectly for the Lord. Either way we are blessed for our obedience.

[OtterPop]

Originally Posted by Justice

Here is one of the great mysteries, and it causes people to wonder and second-guess. But, it's an awesome opportunity for us.

When a called and ordained servant of the Lord speaks we should obey. When we do it is the greatest win-win situation known to man. If he is right then we are blessed for our obedience. If he is wrong then it is his fault for speaking incorrectly for the Lord. Either way we are blessed for our obedience.

I respectfully suggest that it is not always a win-win situation. If you counsel with your bishop about your marriage, and he recommends that you seek divorce but is incorrect in his advice -- but you obey because he is your called and ordained bishop . . . I think being "blessed" for obedience is cold comfort for having followed uninspired advice -- especially if you had your own misgivings.

Again, I'll say that considering a leader's input is one thing. Obeying for the sake of obeying is another.

[Justice]

I'm not sure you caught the full intent of my words.

If your bishop offers you counsel on what the Lord would have you do, and you do it, you will be blessed for your obedience.

Everything else beyond that is just gray matter we add. You say it is "cold comfort" for following uninspired advice, but I say that is a narrow look on things and what the Lord may really want for you. The Lord may have greater things in mind for you in the near future, distant future, or hereafter.

We often feel "advice" from the bishop is "uninspried" until we see the blessings. But, the fact is, we may not see the blessings for some obedience until after we pass from this life.

In my opinion, to call a bishop's advice uninspired is to have a lack of faith in the Lord's ability to bring about and sustain the words of His called and ordained leaders.

I'm sorry for being blunt, but I felt an honest explanation was due.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

I am appreciative of those who have brought up conflicting statements of your leaders saying it is folly to blindly follow a man, shows you have at least pondered the issue.

Now, there are some who say, "We should follow them obediently, receiving a witness of the Spirit". Perhaps you should read the full extant of HCK quote, where he says it is wrong to wait for a revelation or by the Spirit you should do as your told no matter what it is. The JOD is easy enough to find online.

These conflicting teachings (amoung others) are reasons why I could no longer in good faith be a member of the LDS Church. You never know what is going to be taught next.

Here is a question for you? Have not many people within the "Christian Community" make worse and dangerous outlandish statements, teaching doctrines that are not supportive of the bible?

There are far more problems with some of the Christian Ministers who have taught destructive doctrines down through time and even today.

Look at the Health and Wealth Prosperity Gospel Preachers like Benny Hinn who stated that Christ would come and manifest himself at one of his "Healing Crusades".

Look at the greed of Trinity Broadcast network and the dangerous doctrines they teach. In fact, listen to some of those preachers who tell you to "Say to your Wallet, Wallet, be filled with money" and if it does not happen, then you lack your belief in God and do not believe he can honestly provide for you.

There are far more doctrines of Christiandom that are far more dangerously taught than what you are saying is from someone who has already passed on.

We have to look at the context of the society then than try to understand what was said 30 years ago and attempt to interpret in our understanding and society.

Guess what, how long ago was it when the admonishment of having a 2 year supply of food come out? I wonder how many members questioned the reason why... But now...let me see, Hurricane Katrina, Economic Crisis we are in, major natural disasters that are happening quite frequently. Yet, such an admonishment was stated about 20-50 years ago right?

So, I honestly think you are basing your decision on something that was said with a modern day society interpretation.