Do you really concur with these statements? - Page 8

applepansy · #71 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

And you are within your rights to believe all that.

Yes. . . of course Yes. He won't be the prophet long if he starts giving commandments that God doesn't want him to.

You asked if we really believed the statements in your OP . . . that's my answer. BTW as pointed out in previous posts, the JoD is not scripture. While I enjoy reading it. . .I'm on volume 2 in two years. . .

. . . my Mom discourage me to read it because it was counsel for that time that didn't become scripture. So Basically, the JoD is history.

applepansy

bytor2112 · #72 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:31 AM

Kris.......I notice that you believe the Book of Mormon to be sacred scripture. Do you also believe that Joseph Smith is a Prophet? Did he see Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as he claimed? Do you believe that the Church of Jesus Christ was restored? If so, what changed? Why did you decide to accept the Book of Mormon as scripture, but reject the church?

Thanks-Bytor

john doe · #73 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hi ya Elphaba,

Is that really a course ?

What degree would that be in ?

How many credits is it worth ?

Thanks for the answers that are coming soon

Peace,
Carl

It's an online course, and it's worth just as much as any other online degree---- nothing.

MarginOfError · #74 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john doe

It's an online course, and it's worth just as much as any other online degree---- nothing.

Hey, I paid a good $60 for my online degree. I figure that by now, it's appreciated value is about $40. I wouldn't call $40 nothing!

john doe · #75 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:42 AM

$40 in ten years? That's not bad considering my 401(k) has lost considerably more than that lately. Of course, when you calculate in inflation............

Traveler · #76 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

I wasn't aware you really intended for me to answer your obviously ridiculous questions. Have I read the entire JOD? No
I have them at my disposal to check the context of any given quote.

Do I have access to old "out of publication" Ward teaching materials? No (and I never claimed I did)
Have I read said Ward Teaching materials? No

Where did I find the quote? I remembered it from various things I've read through the years googled it and copied and pasted the first site that quoted it. I have no clue what the site was.

I have nothing to hide.

You wish to debate a topic you have not researched? My questions are no more ridiculous than you are. They demonstrate your lack of preparedness and understanding of research.

My problem with you is:

1. You quote from sources you have not studied let alone even read.
2. You quote from sources you have not verified or even care to verify.

Your conclusions are flawed and you do not care to understand why. There is no logic in discussing points of doctrine that you do not understand nor have any desire to comprehend.

Good luck to the rest of this forum trying to have a discussion with this "one".
The Traveler

#77 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

You wish to debate a topic you have not researched? My questions are no more ridiculous than you are. They demonstrate your lack of preparedness and understanding of research.

My problem with you is:

1. You quote from sources you have not studied let alone even read.
2. You quote from sources you have not verified or even care to verify.

Your conclusions are flawed and you do not care to understand why. There is no logic in discussing points of doctrine that you do not understand nor have any desire to comprehend.

Good luck to the rest of this forum trying to have a discussion with this "one".
The Traveler

YEEEAAAHHH, TAKE THAT !!!!!!

Your lucky he didn't tell you how he really feels !!

( sorry, ceeboo is in one of those moods today

)

applepansy · #78 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

These conflicting teachings (amoung others) are reasons why I could no longer in good faith be a member of the LDS Church. You never know what is going to be taught next.

Kris, With faith we can know what will be taught. . .we can know and trust that it will NOT ever conflict with current revealed knowledge from God. That's the measuring stick. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Anything in conflict with the teachings of God are not the teachings of God.

I'm sorry you're lost your faith in modern day revelation. I rejoice in modern day and personal revelaion.

With love and concern,
applepansy

candyprpl · #79 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubaloth

[/COLOR]

I would concur for the most part.

[/COLOR]

This one would be a little bit on the edge (for me)

Yes and part of that judgment well be how we followed the commandments of our leaders.

And I think this is part of the miss understanding that is kind of coming into this thread.

The reason we (LDS members) would trust/follow a prophet so faithfully is because we have already made that judgment up that this person is a prophet of God. That we have gotten that witness that this mortal man, has a calling of Prophet, Seer, and Revelator.

This is the obligation of the members of the church. I feel if they DON’T do this and are following the prophet, then that is the wrong path. The point being, is when one follows the prophet it isn’t because of the calling or title, its because I know by the spirit, that this person is lead and guided by God.

You are, you use your agency to study it out in your mind and in your heart. You use your agency to get on your knees and pray about it. To seek the Lord in guidance. You use your agency based off the decision that you have come to know that this prophet is called of God. You use your agency to follow that council that came from one that is called of God. Agency is very much part of the process.

[COLOR=black]

Like I pointed out, this is not a good comparison. Those following Hitler did not have a choice to find out for themselves if he was the “chosen” leader. Hitler rose to that position and people were forced to follow that.

For a prophet, each member is to gain there own testimony that the prophet is called of God. Each member individually sustains that prophet on there own. If one feels that a prophet is not called of God, they can do what they well. They are not forced in any way.

Wow!! Wish I had said that!! My (unspoken) words also.

applepansy · #80 (**permalink**) 11-20-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OtterPop

I respectfully suggest that it is not always a win-win situation. If you counsel with your bishop about your marriage, and he recommends that you seek divorce but is incorrect in his advice -- but you obey because he is your called and ordained bishop . . . I think being "blessed" for obedience is cold comfort for having followed uninspired advice -- especially if you had your own misgivings.

Again, I'll say that considering a leader's input is one thing. Obeying for the sake of obeying is another.

OtterPop, have you been faithfully obedient to counsel that has resulted in more heartache? I've never ever heard of a bishop who counseled divorce.

I have be tested with obedience to counsel from a bishop that was against my thoughts and feelings. In time, the blessings were truly amazing and things worked out better than if I hadn't followed the counsel from my bishop. We cannot know all things except through God. Our leaders speak to us for God and we can confirm that through prayer and personal revelation. Only our loving Heavenly Father knows what is truly best for us . . .and sometimes what he asks of us is hard.

applepansy