Do you really concur with these statements?

[DeborahC]

I consider only the Prophet, WHILE he is Prophet, to be speaking for God.

The rest of them are humans and fallible, even when they are doing what they consider to be correct.

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by DeborahC

I consider only the Prophet, WHILE he is Prophet, to be speaking for God.

The rest of them are humans and fallible, even when they are doing what they consider to be correct.

Can you clarify that? Because the way it's phrased it implies that you believe the prophet is infallible.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by DeborahC

I consider only the Prophet, WHILE he is Prophet, to be speaking for God.

The rest of them are humans and fallible, even when they are doing what they consider to be correct.

Then I suppose you don't raise your hand in Conference to sustain the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve as prophets, seers, and revelators?

They're all fallible.

[OtterPop]

Originally Posted by applepansy

OtterPop, have you been faithfully obedient to counsel that has resulted in more heartache? I've never ever heard of a bishop who counseled divorce.

I have be tested with obedience to counsel from a bishop that was against my thoughts and feelings. In time, the blessings were truly amazing and things worked out better than if I hadn't followed the counsel from my bishop. We cannot know all things except through God. Our leaders speak to us for God and we can confirm that through prayer and personal revelation. Only our loving Heavenly Father knows what is truly best for us . . .and sometimes what he asks of us is hard.

applepansy

No, I was never counseled badly by a bishop. I would like to comment on the rest of your post, but it wouldn't be appropriate for this board.

[HiJolly]

Hard to believe, but this whole thread has gone almost two days now without anyone linking to this article:

When the Prophet Speaks, Is the Thinking Done?

Here is a (lengthy) excerpt:

Dr. J. Raymond Cope, the leader of the First Unitarian Society in Salt Lake City, was one of those concerned. He decided to express his concerns about the impact of this message in a letter to President George Albert Smith in November of the same year. The letter was cordial, and expressed the feeling that such a message was "doing inestimable harm to many who have no other reason to question the integrity of the Church leaders... this cannot be the position of the true leaders."
President Smith responded to Dr. Cope with a letter of his own, designed to clarify the point, at the first of December. The letter, reproduced in full below, should lay to rest any misconception about whether the Church or its leaders expect blind obedience in any degree. (Items that are underlined are underlined in the original.)

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Office of the First Presidency
Salt Lake City, Utah
December 7, 1945
Dr. J. Raymond Cope
First Unitarian Society
13th East at 6th South Street
Salt Lake City, Utah

My dear Dr. Cope:
I have read with interest and deep concern your letter of November 16, 1945, in which you make special comment on "a short religious editorial prepared by one of your (our) leaders entitled "Sustaining the General Authorities of the Church'". You say that you read the message with amazement, and that you have since been disturbed because of its effect upon members of the Church.

I am gratified with the spirit of friendliness that pervades your letter, and thank you for having taken the time to write to me.

The leaflet to which you refer, and from which you quote in your letter, was not "prepared" by "one of our leaders." However, one or more of them inadvertently permitted the paragraph to pass uncensored. By their so doing, not a few members of the Church have been upset in their feelings, and General Authorities have been embarrassed.

I am pleased to assure you that you are right in your attitude that the passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the Gospel, must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation, and is personally responsible to His Maker for his individual acts. The Lord Himself does not attempt coercion in His desire and effort to give peace and salvation to His children. He gives the principles of life and true progress, but leaves every person free to choose or to reject His teachings. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to follow.

The Prophet Joseph Smith once said: "I want liberty of thinking and believing as I please." This liberty he and his successors in the leadership of the Church have granted to every other member thereof.

On one occasion in answer to the question by a prominent visitor how he governed his people, the Prophet answered: "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves."

Again, as recorded in the History of the Church (Volume 5, page 498 [499] Joseph Smith said further: "If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way."

I cite these few quotations, from many that might be given, merely to confirm your good and true opinion that the Church gives to every man his free agency, and admonishes him always to use the reason and good judgment with which God has blessed him.

In the advocacy of this principle leaders of the Church not only join congregations in singing but quote frequently the following:

"Know this, that every soul is free
To choose his life and what he'll be,
For this eternal truth is given
That God will force no man to heaven."

Again I thank you for your manifest friendliness and for your expressed willingness to cooperate in every way to establish good will and harmony among the people with whom we are jointly laboring to bring brotherhood and tolerance.

Faithfully yours,

Geo. Albert Smith [signed]


This letter can be found in the George A. Smith Papers (Manuscript no. 36, Box 63-8A), Special Collections, Marriott Library, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah. More detailed information on this topic can be found in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 19:1 (Spring 1986), 35-39.

HiJolly

[PeterVenkman]

Originally Posted by applepansy

God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Anything in conflict with the teachings of God are not the teachings of God.

That sounds like a tautology to me.

[Truegrits]

I've never ever heard of a bishop who counseled divorce

I have. Not all marriages can be saved. If one of them breaks their marriage covenants, and is not willing, or even interested in counseling, repentance...and fasting and prayer have brought no change of heart...what other recourse is there?

[KristofferUmfrey]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Kris.......I notice that you believe the Book of Mormon to be sacred scripture. Do you also believe that Joseph Smith is a Prophet? Did he see Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as he claimed? Do you believe that the Church of Jesus Christ was restored? If so, what changed? Why did you decide to accept the Book of Mormon as scripture, but reject the church?

Thanks-Bytor

I believe Joseph was a prophet as far as he obeyed and taught the things found in the Book of Mormon and Bible. I believe he saw God, whether it was the Father and the Son or just the Son I couldn't venture to guess. I believe the rights and privileges of the priesthood were restored in 1829 and that a church was organized by those men who initially received it. I believe that church is in a scattered position at the present, with men able to baptize and lay on hands found in several of the different Book of Mormon believing churches. I believe that soon the Lord will set the church in order and we will be gathered to build New Jerusalem and go out in full power in the era known as "The Work of the Father." I don't reject the church, I do reject however, what I believe to be unscriptural doctrines found in the various scattered branches of the church and trust in God to correct those things when He brings the church back into order.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Originally Posted by applepansy

Kris, With faith we can know what will be taught. . .we can know and trust that it will NOT ever conflict with current revealed knowledge from God. That's the measuring stick. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Anything in conflict with the teachings of God are not the teachings of God.

I'm sorry you're lost your faith in modern day revelation. I rejoice in modern day and personal revelaion.

With love and concern,
applepansy

Don't be confused... I have NOT lost my faith in modern day or personal revelation. I just test anything proclaimed as revelation against the Book of Mormon and Bible standard, and may at times reach a different conclusion then yourself as to what is pure inspiration from heaven and what are the teachings of men.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

Don't be confused... I have NOT lost my faith in modern day or personal revelation. I just test anything proclaimed as revelation against the Book of Mormon and Bible standard, and may at times reach a different conclusion then yourself as to what is pure inspiration from heaven and what are the teachings of men.

You might want to consider that there are some beautiful and profound truths that are specifically and in all righteousness, NOT in the scriptures. That's what the temple endowment is to help us with.


HiJolly