D&c 107:82-84

[KristofferUmfrey]

If it is true that the Prophet cannot give false counsel or lead the church astray, and he will be removed by death if he tries, then the following verses of D&C 107 are the most worthless words in scripture....

"82 And inasmuch as a President of the High Priesthood shall transgress, he shall be had in remembrance before the acommon council of the church, who shall be assisted by twelve counselors of the High Priesthood;
83 And their decision upon his head shall be an end of controversy concerning him.
84 Thus, none shall be exempted from the ajustice and the blaws of God, that all things may be done in corder and in solemnity before him, according to truth and righteousness."

It is the responsibility of the members to know true doctrine, so if falsehoods are put forth they will recognize them and bring the person before a proper church council.

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

If it is true that the Prophet cannot give false counsel or lead the church astray, and he will be removed by death if he tries, then the following verses of D&C 107 are the most worthless words in scripture....


It is the responsibility of the members to know true doctrine, so if falsehoods are put forth they will recognize them and bring the person before a proper church council.

Unless of course you fail to read the entire section.

22 Of the Melchizedek Priesthood, three Presiding High Priests, chosen by the body, appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church, form a quorum of the Presidency of the Church.
23 The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world—thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling....

36 The standing high councils, at the stakes of Zion, form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the quorum of the presidency, or to the traveling high council.
37 The high council in Zion form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the councils of the Twelve at the stakes of Zion....

65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;
66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church....

68 Wherefore, the office of a bishop is not equal unto it; for the office of a bishop is in administering all temporal things;...

78 Again, verily, I say unto you, the most important business of the church, and the most difficult cases of the church, inasmuch as there is not satisfaction upon the decision of the bishop or judges, it shall be handed over and carried up unto the council of the church, before the Presidency of the High Priesthood.
79 And the Presidency of the council of the High Priesthood shall have power to call other high priests, even twelve, to assist as counselors; and thus the Presidency of the High Priesthood and its counselors shall have power to decide upon testimony according to the laws of the church....

82 And inasmuch as a President of the High Priesthood shall transgress, he shall be had in remembrance before the common council of the church, who shall be assisted by twelve counselors of the High Priesthood;
83 And their decision upon his head shall be an end of controversy concerning him.
84 Thus, none shall be exempted from the justice and the laws of God, that all things may be done in corder and in solemnity before him, according to truth and righteousness....

So we have:

• The Presidency of the Church (First Presidency)
• Twelve Apostles (Quorum of the Twelve Apostles)
• Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church (Not the prophet, because the prophet is the President of the High Priesthood, not the presiding High Priest. The presiding High Priest would be the Stake President).
• twelve to assist as counselors (generally, the High Council of a Stake, which "form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the councils of the Twelve at the stakes of Zion").

So unless you can show where we believe that a Stake President will be removed through death because he led those in his stewardship astray, it turns out that your interpretations are wrong.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Unless of course you fail to read the entire section.


So we have:

• The Presidency of the Church (First Presidency)
• Twelve Apostles (Quorum of the Twelve Apostles)
• Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church (Not the prophet, because the prophet is the President of the High Priesthood, not the presiding High Priest. The presiding High Priest would be the Stake President).
• twelve to assist as counselors (generally, the High Council of a Stake, which "form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the councils of the Twelve at the stakes of Zion").

So unless you can show where we believe that a Stake President will be removed through death because he led those in his stewardship astray, it turns out that you're interpretations are wrong.

Nice Spin!

[KristofferUmfrey]

What do the verses between 37 and 65 say?

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

Nice Spin!

must be a professional dodge ball player, nice dodge.

It is nice to see that when the context of the passage is presented and properly interpreted, the "you are avoiding the issue" card comes into play.

Nope, sorry, you just got trumped with my Dodged Card because you are dodging the question.

So, a good answer is required of you.

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

Nice Spin!

Originally Posted by KristofferUmfrey

What do the verses between 37 and 65 say?

Here's a novel idea...try reading it. You might find that the verses that were left out discuss the quorums of the Seventy, organization of the Aaronic Priesthood, and conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood from Adam to his posterity down to Moses. You know, topics that don't have much to do with what the roles of the First Presidency and the Stake Presidency are.

So now not only do your interpretations amount to nonsense, but you look lazy too.

[KristofferUmfrey]

So prophets can't transgress? Wow! And you guys make fun of Catholics for infallibility?

[pam]

No where have I seen it said in this thread that prophets can't transgress. That would make one perfect and NO ONE but Christ is perfect.

D&C 107:77–84. Church Disciplinary Councils
Church disciplinary councils exist both to help
individuals repent and to protect the innocent against
false accusations. In some cases, especially where a
prominent or noteworthy person is involved, a
disciplinary council can help protect the Church’s
good name and moral influence.
President Joseph Fielding Smith further explained:
“There are several councils in the Church. The
traveling high council has jurisdiction in all the
world. The high councils in stakes have jurisdiction
in a judicial way in the stakes. The First Presidency
may sit as an appellate council, and their decision
is final. The Church is so organized that no member
or officer, from the President to the last member
received, is ‘exempted from the justice and the laws
of God.’ The special . . . council, presided over by the
presiding bishopric has been called into existence
several times. The Prophet Joseph Smith was tried
before this council on charges made against him by
Elder Sylvester Smith after the return of Zion’s
Camp. Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and
Frederick G. Williams were each tried by this

tribunal.” (

Church History and Modern Revelation, 2:21;

see also Notes and Commentary on D&C 102;

Enrichment I in the Appendix.)

Section 107

267

Taken from the Institute course handbook.

[MaidservantX]

Some distinction may wish to be made between "transgression" and "falsehoods". This scripture speaks of transgression and not about false doctrine. I am not so sure the two concepts ought to be mushed together.