Christ-like?

[rameumptom]

Jesus stated that he came with a sword. He was the one who commanded Moses and Joshua to absolutely destroy the cities before them that would not surrender to Israel's banner.

This same Christ flooded the earth and destroyed all the wicked of Noah's day. He destroyed Israel and Judea for rejecting Him. And he had the Romans destroy Jerusalem after his crucifixion.

Through his apostle John, we find that Jesus will destroy most of the inhabitants of the earth in the last days, as well. Just look at all the destroying angels, plagues, disasters, and wars prophecied in the Book of Revelation! Then, those not found in the Book of Life will be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone.

Seems like Joseph is in good company. Christ offered peace and blessings for those who accepted Him and his gospel. He also offered destruction for the wicked. Christ worked this way anciently through his prophets and apostles, and he continues to give such warnings through his modern prophets.

But Joseph also taught how we can escape the destructions promised to the wicked by our Savior. He said that if we keep the commandments and follow Christ, we will be blessed in our lands. This teaching is throughout the Book of Mormon and D&C. And it fits perfectly with Christ's call to repentance - either we repent and follow Christ and His servants, or we are destroyed.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

I wonder if you could find a " quote " or " bit of history " that would make the Catholics look not so good

No way...is that possible?

(Not intending to rip on Catholics, just to point out, as I believe Ceeboo also was doing, that all religions have a dark spot here or there.)

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hey ya Pale,

I wonder if you could find a " quote " or " bit of history " that would make the Catholics look not so good

Yes indeed, perspective and faith guides us !!!

I can find much on most religions.

Catholics at one time had 3 concurrent popes who excommunicated each other. Of course, we could also discuss the Inquisition and Indulgences....

Protestants had John Calvin burning people at the stake; witches being burned at the stake; and supported Henry VIII in his "divorces". Protestant ministers led the way of those who murdered Joseph Smith, and in implementing the "extermination order" against the Mormons in Missouri.

Given such histories, I don't think a few quotes from Joseph Smith seem quite so bad.

I don't judge churches from their past histories, as I know they are all run by imperfect humans. What makes a good or bad church, is what are the doctrines they teach and implement?

[Aesa]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hey ya Pale,

I wonder if you could find a " quote " or " bit of history " that would make the Catholics look not so good

Yes indeed, perspective and faith guides us !!!

Well if you want to get into that discussion too, I could go on forever. :P
Really (and I know this is kind of Off-topic) if you want to compare Islamic "extremism" and the Catholic church... well, the catholics have killed millions and millions more.

I don't judge churches from their past histories, as I know they are all run by imperfect humans. What makes a good or bad church, is what are the doctrines they teach and implement?

I wasn't trying to judge with the quote, more trying to get a perspective. Anyway, I couldn't agree more with you along the lines of if a church is an institution, it's run by imperfect people. This is why, in my opinion, Christ never said His church should be an institution.
Institutions become "same-old-same-old" and people just attend because they're a member (the majority anyway), this brings to mind children saying on verbatim "I know the church is true, I know Joseph Smith is a prophet, etc,..." ... and they don't even understand what they're saying.

In regards to what makes a "good church," well first of all none of our works (creating a church, being one of them) is good in the eyes of God. The Bible says that all of our works are as filthy rags before God. This is why Bible believing Christians will probably at one time or another say "God is not in the institution of Church..." You are complete in Christ and Christ only, when you become part of the body of Christ through salvation you are saved.

[Misshalfway]

I don't know Aesa, but you might feel that way too if the homes of your friends and family had been burned and your people chased from place to place in fear of their lives by the very government whose freedoms were suppose to protect you.

There is a point where God's people are justified to stop turning the other cheek.

[Aesa]

When has Christ stop turning His cheek?

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by Aesa

When has Christ stop turning His cheek?

I really think this has already been answered in earlier posts. Again, perhaps a review of the Old Testament might give some insights.

I don't think the Lord expects that we don't defend ourselves. For those who choose to turn the other cheek, such will be turned for righteousness. But Jesus doesn't justify those who have the obligation to defend and protect and who don't take up the sword to do so. There are times when the preservation of family and country is justified....even by the sword. And if someone broke into your home and raped your child, would you sit there and speak love and touch fingers and hum with your invader? I mean come on. There is common sense in Christ's gospel. Not every horrible invasion or abuse should be tolerated. There is something called standing up for the right. Even when it sometimes means using force.

[Elgama]

when did God say a prophet or patriach had to be perfect? - Anger is not always a bad emotion

Abraham - let a wife and son go out into the desert with no servants or support
Jacob - showed so much favouritism with his kids that 10 almost murdered 1.
Moses - killed a man, and took an honour upon himself that was not his to have
Aaron - made a golden calf for people to worship
Noah - got drunk and wandered round naked
Jonah - questioned God time and again, not mention the incident with the Gourd
The disciples could not stay awake for 1 hour
Peter - denied Christ 3 times
Timothy - doubted the resurrection
Elijah - BBQ'd about 300 people
Paul - before he repented assisted in killing Christians


There are loads more just the ones came of the top of my head

All this and we only have a small portion of these prophets lives if we had the volumme of writings on them that we do have on Joseph Smith wonder if they would have had more incidents.

-Charley

[Aesa]

Friend, if you're going to make Peter a prophet ... then that makes all of the true body of Christ prophets.
I wouldn't necesarily disagree with that either, because we're kind of prophesying when we speak of His second coming.

[Elgama]

Originally Posted by Aesa

Friend, if you're going to make Peter a prophet ... then that makes all of the true body of Christ prophets.
I wouldn't necesarily disagree with that either, because we're kind of prophesying when we speak of His second coming.

If you are a Latter Day Saint he is was as much a prophet as Joseph Smith or President Monson,

So in the context of your question it is entirely relevant to use Peter. Timothy and Paul

-Charley