"Second coming"?

Aesa · #1 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 04:54 PM

I wanted to make a topic of discussion about the Second coming of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not supposed to return until the world ends, so if he returned to Joseph Smith the world should have ended ... since he returned. This is in the scriptures.

So, how do mormons reconcile this?

KristofferUmfrey · #2 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aesa

I wanted to make a topic of discussion about the Second coming of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not supposed to return until the world ends, so if he returned to Joseph Smith the world should have ended ... since he returned. This is in the scriptures.

So, how do mormons reconcile this?

His coming in glory isn't until the the "Second Coming", He can visit His prophets whenever He feels like it.

Misshalfway · #3 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 04:59 PM

Well, in the NT it is clear Jesus returned to the apostles. It is clear that folks like Stephen saw him in vision. Wouldn't these events fall into the same catagory as Joseph's first vision?

Jesus can and will manifest himself privately to many. He will visit this earth and speak to his prophets. It was his pattern from the beginning. His second coming is an altogether different thing. He came once to dwell on this earth. When he comes again he will stay to rule and reign in all his glory and then the millenium will begin.

For LDS people there is nothing to reconcile.

Aesa · #4 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:01 PM

But he returned. I mean, end of story.
I cannot even reconcile Christ just appearing.

He made it clear in the scripture that we will not meet Him until the coming of the end.
This makes God a liar to say it any other way. :|

A vision is generally very different to God being here in the flesh.

Quote:

Well, in the NT it is clear Jesus returned to the apostles. It is clear that folks like Stephen saw him in vision.

Well, he hadn't even ascended into Heaven yet...

Misshalfway · #5 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aesa

But he returned. I mean, end of story.
I cannot even reconcile Christ just appearing.

He made it clear in the scripture that we will not meet Him until the coming of the end.
This makes God a liar to say it any other way. :|

Then you need to go back to the Lord and ask him why he spent days and days with the twelve after his resurrection. Perhaps your concern can be cleared up with careful biblical study.

And he did not return. He communicated and revealed and taught. He did this before he was born and lived in the earth. He did this after his resurrection. His return the second official time is much more involved than the veil becoming thin for one or a few. The world may not meet him, but gosh, Jesus can appear to whom ever and whenever he likes. This does not make him a liar. It makes him loving as he reveals to us what we need in order to have faith in him.

Aesa · #6 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:18 PM

Yes, he did it after his ressurection.
But, he hadn't ascended into heaven yet, he'd only finished the 3 days in hell.

BenRaines · #7 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:18 PM

Asea, are you here to learn or to share your beliefs or just to attack ours?

What does it mean in the scriptures OT when it says "The Lord's anger was kindled against them"? Was that loving anger that slew the man for touching the ark? How about banishing the Children of Israel from the promised land and not one other than Joshua who left from Egypt, not one of over approx. 1 million was allowed to enter in to the promised land because they did not have faith so they died in the wilderness.

How about the Lord's instructions in the taking of Jericho? Not one living things was to be left, not man, woman, child, animal, etc.

Ben Raines

KristofferUmfrey · #8 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aesa

But he returned. I mean, end of story.
I cannot even reconcile Christ just appearing.

He made it clear in the scripture that we will not meet Him until the coming of the end.
This makes God a liar to say it any other way. :|

A vision is generally very different to God being here in the flesh.

Well, he hadn't even ascended into Heaven yet...

You might get to know your scriptures a tad better before before engaging in Biblical apologetics. Stephen was martyred after, Jesus ascended into heaven. But forget Stephen...

Saul (Paul) had Jesus actually come to him, a few years after Jesus ascended into heaven. Likewise, John the Revelator had the Savior appear to him and reveal the visions that compromise the Book of Revelation. I think your Pastor sent you out to soon, go back and study, and then return.

Misshalfway · #9 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aesa

Yes, he did it after his ressurection.
But, he hadn't ascended into heaven yet, he'd only finished the 3 days in hell.

When he visited Mary in the garden just after his resurrection, he instructed her not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to his father. But it is clear that he visited the twelve and instructed them to touch him and examine the prints in his hands and feet. He had ascended at this point and visited the twelve so that they could testify that he had indeed overcome death.

But ascension is really beside the point. Jesus appeared before he came to earth. Moses talked to him face to face as a man speaks to another man. Jesus can and does appear to many. He did to Joseph but he didn't stay on the earth. He didn't come with his two edged sword and end the world. He gave instructions -- part of which were to prepare for the second coming.

I don't really think you, Aesa, are here to discuss or to listen. So, I doubt this conversation will go anywhere.

Aesa · #10 (**permalink**) 12-03-2008, 05:23 PM

Why does everyone always assume you're "bashing" beliefs when your critically question them?

I would agree with you BenRaines, but lets remember the Lord's anger is righteous. Joseph Smith is not the Lord God when I last checked.

This goes along the lines of the ridiculous notion that God loves everybody. I agree with you, He does hate.

"Jacob I have loved, Esau have I hated..."

"For God so loved the world, that whosever believeth in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life..."

God became a man 2,000 years ago so that he could save the lost -- not uphold those who already think they're righteous.

Quote:

You might get to know your scriptures a tad better before before engaging in Biblical apologetics. Stephen was martyred after, Jesus ascended into heaven. But forget Stephen...

Saul (Paul) had Jesus actually come to him, a few years after Jesus ascended into heaven. Likewise, John the Revelator had the Savior appear to him and reveal the visions that compromise the Book of Revelation. I think you Pastor sent you out to soon, go back and study, and then return.

I'm aware of all those, what's your contention here? Where is Stephen in the Bible -- that's the only thing I'm not clear on here...