Word of Wisdom: a Temporal or Eternal law?

[Janice]

At risk of being called a heretic (again), I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.

Did Christ drink wine? As in real wine? Or was it, as I have heard some Mormons claim, actually grape juice?

We know that Joseph & the other men in the School of the Prophets would, before being given D&C 89, smoke and chew tobacco. If use of tobacco was inherently offensive to God, wouldn't he have made it a forbidden vice earlier?

We had (he died a few years ago) a Patriarch in our stake who was a convert, and when baptized, he had a wine cellar with thousands of dollars worth of wine. He pored it all down the drain. I heard him say on more then one occasion, "When I die, I am confident that God will greet me at the pearly gates with two glass of the very best wine the universe has to offer, one for me and one for Him, and as we toast, he will say, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant.' "

Before you get too worked up, know that my family and I keep the word of wisdom to the absolute letter of the law, and I am not, in anyway, saying that anybody should do other wise.

But... is it a temporal, lesser law that we are being asked to live today? Or is it an eternal law that always has and always will exist?

Curious to hear your thoughts.

Janice

[Just_A_Guy]

I would say a temporal law, but built on a foundation of eternal principles.

But, see D&C 29:34-35:

34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.
35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual.

Reconcile that as you will.

Did Christ drink wine? As in real wine? Or was it, as I have heard some Mormons claim, actually grape juice?

It was real wine. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are full of stories of people getting drunk on "wine". And there are numerous contemporary accounts of Joseph Smith drinking bona fide wine.

We had (he died a few years ago) a Patriarch in our stake who was a convert, and when baptized, he had a wine cellar with thousands of dollars worth of wine. He pored it all down the drain. I heard him say on more then one occasion, "When I die, I am confident that God will greet me at the pearly gates with two glass of the very best wine the universe has to offer, one for me and one for Him, and as we toast, he will say, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant.' "

He had apparently read D&C 27:5-14, paying particular attention to verse 14.

[tomk]

It is a spiritual law. They all are.

[Janice]

Ah! I see I used the wrong word. I should have said: Word of Wisdom: a Temporary or Eternal law?

I was not aware of this verse:

"5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim; " D&C 29:5

Interesting.

So, if it used to be okay to drink wine, and it will be again, why isn't it now? I'm not trying argue with God, or anyone else. I am just honestly curious. Why are we being asked to live what seems to be a "lower" law, as was the Law of Moses to the Children of Israel? The logical answer would seem to be because, just as the Children of Israel, we apparently need a more controlling, more dominant law.... "Don't drink too much wine" would not be good enough, and because we can't be trusted He had to say, "You know what, just don't ever touch the stuff."

Am I off base here?

Janice

[tomk]

I dunno.

I've never drunk wine, not planning on it. I don't think about.

[Janice]

Originally Posted by tomk

I've never drunk wine, not planning on it. I don't think about.

Same. Nor have I ever smoked, or drank coffee or green tea. None are even a temptation. Yet this does not stop me from being curious about the "why's" behind the commandments we are asked to live.

Janice

[Maxel]

I'm quite sure Christ drank real, alcoholic wine. Then again, Christ also was subject to the terms and conditions of mortality around 1-33 B.C. in Jerusalem and Israel's cities; that included drinking wine as it was in some cases the best alternative (especially when the nearby water was rancid, as the Jordan river).

That being said, we should read the Word of Wisdom in the manner in which it presents itself, especially when we look at the commandment to not drink alcohol. The first few verses read:

D&C 89:1-5

1 A Word OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation

Of note:

1.) "showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days"

The scripture states that the Word of Wisdom's purpose is the temporal salvation of the saints in the latter days. What other meanings are covered by the term 'temporal salvation' are, in my opinion, many. To date, I have identified several social, economical, spiritual, and health-related reasons for teetotalism.

For example:
Social- Not drinking tends to separate a person from 'the crowd', especially when 'the crowd' is drinking. This helps keep a person away from the irresponsible behavior and serious sins that can accompany intoxication (fornication/adultery, reckless endangerment of life (like drunk driving), etc.). Also, it help set us apart as a 'peculiar people'.
Economical- If you're not paying for alcoholic beverages, you're not wasting money. Alcohol is expensive and addictive. If one becomes addicted, one might give up everything else to pay for more alcohol. It happens all too frequently.
Spiritual- The biggest blessings are those that come from obedience to the Word of Wisdom.
Health- Alcohol has largely negative effects on the body, and its positive effects can be obtained through other foods. Generally, drinking alcohol renders a person's body worse for wear than if they hadn't drunk it.

Please note that most of these are 'common sense' and I know of few studies that support my statements, and I forget where to find those studies. At this time, I don't care to look on the internet for them either.

------------------------
Take all that with a few grains of salt, however, and remember D&C 29:34-35 (thank you for citing that, Just_A_Guy).

2.) "adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints"

The Word of Wisdom is a commandment given to all the Saints based on the needs of the 'weakest' of the group. That is to say, we are all expected to abstain from alcohol because the weakest, faithful Latter-day Saint will not be able to take even a sip of alcohol without abusing it.

3.) "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days,"

This revelation is given, in part, because of the wickedness that will exist in high places in these end days. The social and moral atmosphere of these last days is dramatically different than in Jesus' time, largely because of technological advances. No matter how wonderful a wine-makers' wares were in Jesus' time, (s)he could not distribute his/her product with the ease and ability that we see in today's culture. Nowadays, everyone from the King of the World to Joe Schmoe the Homeless Guy has easy access to liquor- and lots of it. Not only that, but the alcohol companies push their product on America (and other nations) through constant advertisement that was unknown in Jesus' day.

Because of these and other differences, it has become advisable for those who would be blessed of the Lord to abstain from the activities and substances forbidden in the Word of Wisdom. So, to answer your question, the Word of Wisdom is both a spiritual and temporal law- in part because following it requires us to adhere to the spiritual principles of obedience and faith while at the same time adhering to temporal principles of fiscal responsibility and personal cleanliness.

[Janice]

Wow. This is good stuff. You used some words I'm going to have to look up. Can you say this again... a little more... plainly? And can you give examples?

Originally Posted by Maxel

What other meanings are covered by 'temporal salvation' are, in my opinion, multitudinous. To date, I have identified sundry social, economical, spiritual, and health-related reasons for teetotalism.

Thanks!!!

[Just_A_Guy]

So, if it used to be okay to drink wine, and it will be again, why isn't it now? I'm not trying argue with God, or anyone else. I am just honestly curious. Why are we being asked to live what seems to be a "lower" law, as was the Law of Moses to the Children of Israel? The logical answer would seem to be because, just as the Children of Israel, we apparently need a more controlling, more dominant law.... "Don't drink too much wine" would not be good enough, and because we can't be trusted He had to say, "You know what, just don't ever touch the stuff."

Maxel has given me a lot to think about. The answer that I was going to give is pretty much the same as what I wrote here earlier today: God just wants us to be different.

[Traveler]

May I add some thought here? First off temporal and temporary in reality do mean the same thing. Temporal refers to time (which is temporary) and eternal refers to that which is not subject to time.

The second thing I would like to bring up is the concept of covenant and being a covenant people. The method of G-d is line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept. This method is used with covenants. The covenants given through the priesthood in this life will prepare us for the covenants we will live in the next. In that sense most covenants are temporal or temporary even though they have eternal ramifications.

Discipline is the first step to freedom or living Celestial covenant which is the only covenant of freedom. We are told that the Word of Wisdom is a very easy covenant that anyone calling themselves a saint is likely to encounter. There is much to consider in this concept. The point that many do not seem to get is that if they cannot discipline themselves with the covenant in the word of wisdom there is much concern concerning them.

My suggestion is that one accepts the word of wisdom as a covenant and discipline themselves with the minimum suggested as commandment. When you master that discipline you will understand the wisdom of the covenant and will likely be lead to understand the next spiritual step in preparing you via discipline for more eternal understanding of things. If you are having problems with this first elementary step – I suggest you consider a change of attitude (also known as repentance).

The Traveler