The Godhead & Grief

[Dr T]

Is that just how you read what he said DNC? I'm not sure what you're talking about. (and I liked your use of the 2 cents)

[Moksha]

Joseph Smith said something like 'man lives so he might have joy'. I suppose this is contingent upon the poor wayfaring man of grief having taken the burden of this world upon his shoulders.

[OneEternalSonata]

Oh, that is a beautiful and bittersweet thought, Moksha!

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Dr T

But that's not true Traveler. A true Christian would not just have carefree glee and say it is all just dandy because they are saved. That's where you are wrong. That does not sound like true Christian at all.

Thank you Dr. T -- My point exactly. A true Christian will be the first in line to beg for mercy and forgiveness and the last to pronounce themselves saved. They would do so because knowing the unnecessary pain and suffering that they added to the Christ in light of their “personal” knowledge and with no excuse but carelessness and a caviler attitude that is removed from a genuine love a G-d

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Yes sir, that's exactly it. It is a person that actually begged for mercy and forgivenss and understands the pain and suffering we added to Crist. Then it becomes gratitude and awe imo and repeated thankfulness of and growth in Christ.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Dr T

Yes sir, that's exactly it. It is a person that actually begged for mercy and forgivenss and understands the pain and suffering we added to Crist. Then it becomes gratitude and awe imo and repeated thankfulness of and growth in Christ.

I agree with what you say - what I want to make sure is that we do not overlook that having received forgiveness of their sins and knowing what great pain they did cause the L-rd with sin - No real Christian would ever think that continuing to sin is not “turning one's back on the L-rd” or “denying the Christ and his sacrifice”.

In the words and teachings of Jesus – If someone says they know of the greatness of Christ and do not keep the commandments (which are sinful) – they are a liar. What they say they believe is not as important as how they live. Their works are necessary to demonstrate what they really believe – not so much to others as to themselves.

For this reason – I have come to believe that those that argue a separation of faith and works; implying covenantal works are not G-d’s will, deny salvation through Christ.

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by OneEternalSonata

How many believe the Godhead grieve? I believe they do.

My Dad and I were discussing this topic. He believes since he is saved by grace, and is covered by the blood of Christ, that God never grieves when we sin.

I believe the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, as well as the heavenly host, do grieve for us when we sin, when we're hurt or afflicted, or any other situation that would call for it.

Any thoughts?

Does the FATHER and the Son weep? Yes! As they also grieve over us. Holy Spirit, He needs to experience this feeling with a mortal body, which currently, He does not have a mortal body to do so.

[Dr T]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I agree with what you say - what I want to make sure is that we do not overlook that having received forgiveness of their sins and knowing what great pain they did cause the L-rd with sin - No real Christian would ever think that continuing to sin is not “turning one's back on the L-rd” or “denying the Christ and his sacrifice”.

In the words and teachings of Jesus – If someone says they know of the greatness of Christ and do not keep the commandments (which are sinful) – they are a liar. What they say they believe is not as important as how they live. Their works are necessary to demonstrate what they really believe – not so much to others as to themselves.

For this reason – I have come to believe that those that argue a separation of faith and works; implying covenantal works are not G-d’s will, deny salvation through Christ.

The Traveler

Thanks Traveler. As I read that my mind flashed on a verse and since my mind is not working too well at the moment I can't dig up the reference off the top of my head at the moment. I'll finish work and then look it up. I wrestled with that verse when I read it. I'm thinking 1 Peter for some reason but again, I don't have the reference for it. It said something about those that say they don't are liars. I'll check it out in the next few days. Thanks for your thoughts.

[OneEternalSonata]

Hemi, wouldn't that also mean Jehovah, before the meridian of time, was unable to grieve? I'm not sure I'm following your logic here. It seems you could be implying the Holy Spirit cannot grieve with us until he has tasted of such emotion in the flesh. Is that what you mean? If so, I'd have to respectfully disagree. While the HS may not have experienced mortal grief yet, surely he does grieve. "...the Spirit is grieved... Amen to the priesthood of..." Also, the sons of God shouted for joy premortally, so wouldn't that also denote emotion such as grief? Maybe I'm on a tangent, but I'm interested in your thoughts.

[Dr T]

I wonder if your dad thinks that grief is an emotion that is outside his view of God's perfection (such as "wanting" or needing something) and has a hard time thinking of God in that way? Hmmmm...have you talked to him any more about it?