Question On Joesph Smith And Other Prophets

[TRomans]

Hello everybody,

Earlier today I was watching the 4 hour PBS documentary entitled "The Mormons". I thought it was an interesting documentary, although I feel that they could of touched more on some parts and less on others-such as polygamy and those who still practise it-as they are not even members of the church.

Anywho my question comes on the bases of Joesph Smith calling polygamy into play. From my understanding it is that many members including Brigham Young were opposed to this idea. Smith had claimed that it was through Revelation that he had received this notion of putting polygamy back into use.

Now comes my question..Do you think that Joseph made polygamy alright in the Church for selfish reasons? That perhaps he wanted to have polygamy so he could sleep with younger women? I know Joesph Smith is/was a Prophet of God, but nonetheless he is still a man-an imperfect being.

Also say this happened in today's times, that we felt one of our leaders was doing something for personal reasons. Do we obey or what?

I hope what I am getting at makes sense, and that my question can be answered.

Thanks

Tyler

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by TRomans

Now comes my question..Do you think that Joseph made polygamy alright in the Church for selfish reasons? That perhaps he wanted to have polygamy so he could sleep with younger women?

No. Also, read the site rules, number one in particular and be careful how you go about addressing the issue. We can discuss what various prophets did and if its from the Lord or not but be careful how you do so and what motives you might ascribe them.

This isn't an official warning or anything, just a heads up to you and others who may participate in the thread.

Also say this happened in today's times, that we felt one of our leaders was doing something for personal reasons. Do we obey or what?

Go to the Lord in prayer and ask for confirmation concerning what is happening. Same process those who had issues with polygamy but eventually accepted it as of the Lord went through.

[Soul_Searcher]

I'm in the same predicament. How do I know what a Prophet says is true given there's been so much they have taught that is now considered rubbish or has been retracted.

I basically pick the things I feel ok about and follow them. The things I feel not ok about, I don't.

Are we not blessed with the spirit of discernment?

As for Joseph Smith...the fact that he lied about much of his polygamy life says to me he was still an imperfect man and this had a lot to do with it.

[Soul_Searcher]

Dravin...I posted the same time as you...duly noted.

[TRomans]

Originally Posted by Dravin

No. Also, read the site rules, number one in particular and be careful how you go about addressing the issue. We can discuss what various prophets did and if its from the Lord or not but be careful how you do so and what motives you might ascribe them.

This isn't an official warning or anything, just a heads up to you and others who may participate in the thread.

I did not mean any disrespect to any who might/may be offended. I have been an Investigator with the Church for almost 9 months, but I still have questions. This documentary just aroused that question-it made me think when Brigham I guess said that you "you can ask for me to give up my wealth, or my time but please dont make me do this". Thats all I was asking.

Originally Posted by Soul_Searcher

I basically pick the things I feel ok about and follow them. The things I feel not ok about, I don't.

Also..Soul_Searcher, I can understand where you are coming from here. At the same time I think this can be a dangerous thing. If we started picking and choosing to follow it could be bad in the end. For example if I decided to attend Sacrament Meeting every Sunday, but chose to ignore the Word of Wisdom that is going against a core teaching of the Church. That is a bit far streched but I hope you can see what I am getting at?

lol I apologise to any, I have a hard time explaining what goes on in my head so it may sound confusing or weird.

Tyler

[volgadon]

Polygamy went against the cultural upbringing of all involved, including Joseph Smith.
There isn't evidence that he consumated most of his other marriages and I think quite a few of his wives were quite a bit older than he was.

[Dravin]

I did not mean any disrespect to any who might/may be offended.

I didn't think you did, threads like these can go that route however so I thought I'd try to head it off at the pass so to speak.

[Snow]

Originally Posted by TRomans

Hello everybody,

Earlier today I was watching the 4 hour PBS documentary entitled "The Mormons". I thought it was an interesting documentary, although I feel that they could of touched more on some parts and less on others-such as polygamy and those who still practise it-as they are not even members of the church.

Anywho my question comes on the bases of Joesph Smith calling polygamy into play. From my understanding it is that many members including Brigham Young were opposed to this idea. Smith had claimed that it was through Revelation that he had received this notion of putting polygamy back into use.

Now comes my question..Do you think that Joseph made polygamy alright in the Church for selfish reasons? That perhaps he wanted to have polygamy so he could sleep with younger women? I know Joesph Smith is/was a Prophet of God, but nonetheless he is still a man-an imperfect being.

Also say this happened in today's times, that we felt one of our leaders was doing something for personal reasons. Do we obey or what?

I hope what I am getting at makes sense, and that my question can be answered.

Thanks

Tyler

Joseph Smith may have had an over-active libido - maybe or maybe not. There's no real evidence on the matter. The evidence points towards theological motivations - he was very motivated by the idea of family and sealings, and abrahamic posterity.

[bytebear]

I think the rumors about improper relations with underage girls is far overblown. The two major issues come up with Fanny Alger and Hellen Mar Kimball.

In the case of Alger, the supposed relationship occurred in 1833, when she lived with the Smith's and got pregnant. The problem I have is that Joseph never even mentioned plural marriage until 1838, and now she is lumped in with all of his other sealings, despite no evidence that she was. Also, the child who everyone assumed was his has now been proven through DNA to not be his, so a nasty rumor of infidelity that turned out to be false is lumped into polygamy. I don't buy it.

In the case of the second example of Hellen Kimball, she was 14, and sealed to Smith, but only at the request of her father Heber C. Kimball. She never lived with Joseph and the apparent sealing was a way to link the Kimball's with the prophet in what historians call a dynastic connection. There is no evidence that she ever had any kind of marital relationship with the prophet.

As for Brigham Young, he married a lot of women, many of whom he never had children with, and was more to support husbandless women. It seems to me a pretty extreme position to take just to have relations with young women. It certainly was never in practice as it is now in the breakaway sects we hear about in the news.

[anatess]

When I was investigating the Church and I first heard of the practice of polygamy, I never had any problem understanding the Lord's purpose for it. My grandmother got widowed in World War 2 - around 1944. She had 3 kids at this time, the youngest only 4 years old. She had to send her children kicking and screaming to the nunnery because it was just impossible for her to take care of them. Women in 1944 in the Philippines have no means to support themselves as they cannot work, cannot own property, etc. etc.

Here we are talking about the 1830's - over a century earlier than World War 2. With the early history of the LDS church, I can completely feel the desperation of these faithful women who have lost their husbands in massacres, etc. I would think that the Lord desired that these women stay in LDS families and be supported by upstanding priesthood holders. It is also one way for the Church to increase in member population in so short a time before all the males get killed! Polygamy to me makes sense. But then, if you see my other posts in a different thread, I am about the only one in this planet that do not immediately attach sexual relations to a relationship between opposite genders. I have no problem understanding that many of these polygamous relationships are not for the purpose of sex but for protection.