Changes to John 3:16 - Page 3

pam · #21 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 02:08 AM

Lattelady..until you can show us where you saw this..this conversation seems rather moot. You are trying to debate something that no one else seems to have saw. We can only speculate why someone added a few words to scripture without having the actual statement to read. I think when you ask questions about why does something say something...have that link ready to go. All this I read somewhere, I can't remember where...it's hard to have a conversation when we have no idea what it is you are questioning.

john doe · #22 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 08:55 AM

Yeah, but it's a good tactic to put you on the defensive isn't it?

lattelady · #23 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 09:35 AM

I understand. I wish I could find it--I've tried hard for several days. I understand why it would make the conversation moot at this point.

Traveler · #24 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lattelady

Traveler, respectfully, I would have to disagree. The words I saw added "that whosoever believeth in Him AND KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS..." change the core teaching of that verse.

Interesting disagreement. I would like to pursue your thinking on this matter because in Luke chapter 4 it appears to me that Satan is able to twist any individual verse of scripture to justify whatever understanding pleases him and any one he can deceive.

As Christians today we are at a great disadvantage with resolving doctrinal issues because we are so far removed from the time, language and culture of the scriptures. Anyone that can speak more than one language understands the great difficulty of translations.

Now, you have left me with a dilemma in that it appears your understanding is narrow and inconstant. So I ask again – Is it possible for anyone to believe in someone that they do not know? How is it that you will not accept the notion that we must know a person before being able to believe in them as a “core” element of really being able to understand the scripture of John 3:16? Has it not even occurred to you that the clarifying scripture I offered is 1John 2:3-4 are likely ideas expressed from the same person?

Right now this point is critical between you and I because I am not sure I do indeed understand you – and so I ask in hope that I may understand your motives – Is it possible to believe in a person that you really do not know at all?

The Traveler

Vort · #25 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

Was it before or after you saw the Loch Ness Monster on a double-date with Elvis and the Gabor twins?

I thought there were three Gabors, not two.

Vort · #26 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lattelady

Traveler, respectfully, I would have to disagree. The words I saw added "that whosoever believeth in Him AND KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS..." change the core teaching of that verse.

How so? To believe in Christ MEANS to keep his commandments. If you don't keep his commandments, you don't believe in him. The wording seems only to make explicit what any Christian would understand as implicit, anyway.

BenRaines · #27 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 01:44 PM

I don't understand all the hoopla over it. It is not part of our Standard Works. I have often heard a scripture rephrased to make a point, make it more modern or understandable in our time.

I know that the scriptures were not changed. I learned John 3:16 as a young Baptist boy. It reads the same in my LDS? scriptures today.

Ben Raines

Traveler · #28 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenRaines

I don't understand all the hoopla over it. It is not part of our Standard Works. I have often heard a scripture rephrased to make a point, make it more modern or understandable in our time.

I know that the scriptures were not changed. I learned John 3:16 as a young Baptist boy. It reads the same in my LDS? scriptures today.

Ben Raines

Ben: I do not understand the question as well but I am looking at it differently. Even if this partilcular scirpture were to have such words - I do not see that it changes the doctrine that John teaches - especially if we understand all his words and not try to take someting "out of context" and isolate it.

I believe if we are allowed to "take apart" any bodies words we can make it appear as thought they believed the exact opposit of what they really believed.

The Traveler

Misshalfway · #29 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 02:20 PM

I may be wrong......but I think this is a grace vs. works issue as John 3:16 is a major foundational verse for the* saved by grace belief.

But I agree with you Traveler. I feel like I could go to the bible and pull so many scriptures that support keeping the commandments. But as we all know, we are criticized because we believe that obedience is part of salvation. So and so and so and so....

BenRaines · #30 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 02:32 PM

I too do not understand how anyone can believe that all they have to do is "believe" and they will be saved. What does "believe" entail? I believe with all my heart. Is that all I have to do? Do my actions demonstrate, manifest, show by belief? I think so.

It was what Christ did that allows us salvation. It is what we do, believe, isn't believing an action? It is what we do to believe that allows us to receive that salvation.

Ben Raines