Does God Meddle with Free Will?

Snow · #1 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 09:46 PM

A few months back there was a discussion about whether, at a supplicant's request, God would intercede with a prospective employer to cause that employer to hire the supplicant when, without God's intervention, the employer would not have hired the supplicant, but rather hired someone else.

Simply put, is the idea of divine manipulation of a person's free agency in accordance with gospel principles?

Justice · #2 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 09:55 PM

I know this doesn't answer your question, but knowing that God knows all things and knows what's best for me, I hope and even pray that He intercedes on my behalf and infringes on my agency to do what is best for me, if necessary.

prisonchaplain · #3 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 09:58 PM

This may come close--I know (by faith and some incidental coincidences) that God led me to my current job.

Gatorman · #4 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 11:29 PM

Is God providing an extra burning of the heart to guide someone removing their free agency? Could they still choose to ignore that prompting? Remember, the other part of that discussion was why doesn't he answer some prayers? Why doesn't he stop the murderer, etc? Perhaps, he does intercede for us, but, the individual's agency allow them to condemn themselves by ignoring it.

BenRaines · #5 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 11:56 PM

If I understand Snow's question it is not so much about our free will but that of the employer. Our desire being the job, Does God cause the employer to hire you, losing employer's agency?

Ben Raines

sixpacktr · #6 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:22 AM

I know that it does happen, as it has happened in our family.

Does that therefore show that God is manipulating another's agency to grant us an answer to a prayer? I don't know that manipulation is the right word. Softening another's heart, perhaps. Giving them inspiration/revelation, perhaps. Steering them in a course that meets the intended result, perhaps.

tubaloth · #7 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 01:26 AM

Interesting question. Really I don't think we do know, or can we fully know how God works. I always looked at it more that God points out things that might be missed. The employeer still makes the choice. So in the end God is just giving more knoweldge or True to the person. The agency is still there, and the will of the person isn't touched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixpacktr

Steering them in a course that meets the intended result, perhaps.

I don't know if God steers people. (I know what you mean). Even the idea that God can steer people for my blessing does seem strange. Because then that manes God could steer me.

joofob · #8 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 05:27 AM

I think you need to be careful in drawing the line for what is influencing and what is forcing. If God influences the employer he is not forcing or making the choice for the employer.
Your scenario only suggests influencing and if one insists "manipulating" the employer. At any time the employer can still choose to hire or not hire the applicant. He retains his agency in full, but the circumstances in which he makes the decision are altered.

The scriptures are FULL of such examples and many here I am sure can provide such experiences in their own lives. I am not aware of any event where God has ever forced someone to do something. I don't believe he ever would, nor do I see how he could lol. Really how do you force someone to do something? They always have a choice between actions no matter how overbearing the circumstances may be. The only conceivable way I can think of where someone is absolutely forced into doing something is by a means beyond possession, which I am not aware exists. I could be wrong, but hey you would need a pretty convincing argument to show that someone can be forced in an absolute way where their agency is void. The only thing that could potentially be associated with such an example is by stretching the doctrine of influencing spirits, i.e. the devil can have power over you, but even that is lacking because one must permit the devil to influence and enslave themselves in his grasp. Anyway if anyone has some pretty convincing arguments Im down to check them out

sixpacktr · #9 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubaloth

I don't know if God steers people. (I know what you mean). Even the idea that God can steer people for my blessing does seem strange. Because then that manes God could steer me.

It is an interesting question, but I know that I HAVE been steered to make certain decisions. My agency wasn't taken from me--far from it. But I had certain feelings that made my original choice seem wrong. And in another instance a friend of a friend had a lead for a job, and then I ended up here, where we were desparately needed (along with about 4 other families in our ward). In another instance, we were prayed into another ward.

Perhaps it is different for us as Christians that want to do God's will. We lay our agency before God, saying basically 'do with me what you will' and then he gives it back (obviously) but does put us where we're needed, either in a job, a move, a calliing, etc.

Seminarysnoozer · #10 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

A few months back there was a discussion about whether, at a supplicant's request, God would intercede with a prospective employer to cause that employer to hire the supplicant when, without God's intervention, the employer would not have hired the supplicant, but rather hired someone else.

Simply put, is the idea of divine manipulation of a person's free agency in accordance with gospel principles?

If free agency is given by God how is manipulation of it by God not in accordance with gospel principles?