Jesus and other worlds

[Misshalfway]

Cool.

[mrmarklin]

Originally Posted by mandii

Okay, so I know that LDS doctrine teaches that there are other worlds that are inhabited by people. I also read somewhere (although I can't remember where, so it may or may not be true lol) that the church teaches that Jesus is the savior of ALL worlds.

So my questions are:

1) Is it true (according to LDS teachings) that Jesus is the savior of all worlds, or only Earth?

2) Did Jesus visit other worlds or just Earth? And if he visited other worlds, did he have to be crucified and ressurected to save the people of other worlds? Or was his one crucifixion and ressurection on Earth sufficient to save all children of God in this world and others?

Thanks in advance!

1 We don't know the answer to this question, there are no pronouncements by the church to that effect. Frankly, the question is irrelevant to us.

My personal belief is that the Christ is our Christ, and other worlds have their own.

2 See my answer to #1.


Statements in the scriptures about "all creation" etc must certainly be interpreted in the context of the times they were given. Modern understanding is that the stars are other suns with other planets was simply not on anyone's radar in ancient times, or even a few hundred years ago.

[Just_A_Guy]

Originally Posted by martybess

Does not the BOM teach the it was an infinite atonement?

Some infinities are bigger than other infinities. Just something to ponder . . .

[Moksha]

Don't know if this the official Church position, but it has been said the Jesus' atonement took care of the salvation needs of all the Universe. Here is a semi-responsible counter position:

Well, from watching PBS (as shown on KBYU none the less!!!) we are told the the universe began 14.5 Billion years ago. The Earth itself is newer than many planets since we have been around 4.5 Billion years. During that ten billion year time lag, many other planets sprung into existence.

Should we base our atonement speculations off of a variation of the geo-centric model, with Earth as the center of everything? The Catholic Church once put astronomers and theoreticians to death for arguing against this model. They have long since let go of it when newer and more accurate understanding became widespread.

Wouldn't the natural order and progression of things point to the older worlds getting on with their business rather than regard our planet as the center of things? Even the Book of Abraham facsimiles talk about Kolob as the starting point and mention the planets Enish-go-on-Dosh and Obliblish as being connected to the fifteen planet Stargate system powered by Kaukobeams. Why would they stall their progression for us to catch up?

[tubaloth]

Originally Posted by mandii

So my questions are:
1) Is it true (according to LDS teachings) that Jesus is the savior of all worlds, or only Earth?

The answer was already given from Martybess. I guess the answer was lost in her source.
So I'll give the same quote from a different source.

For the Lord he is God, and his life never ends,
And besides him there ne’er was a Saviour of men. …
He’s the Saviour, and only begotten of God—
By him, of him, and through him, the worlds were all made,
Even all that career in the heavens so broad,
Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last,

Are sav’d by the very same Saviour of ours;
And, of course, are begotten God’s daughters and sons,
By the very same truths, and the very same pow’rs.”
(Times and Seasons 4:82–85.)
LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

So what is the source. Its Joseph Smith, not McConkie.

So what is Joseph Smith teaching, and what is a clear teaching is that Jesus Christ is the one that created all of Heavenly Fathers works. There are more scriptures on this (you can look them up) . So is is through Christ that all of Heavenly Fathers works are saved! This would mean all other worlds.

2) Did Jesus visit other worlds or just Earth?

I have to say for trying to ask just two questions, this second one has like 5 sub questions!

Yes, Just as Jesus also visited the Nephites, Jesus had others to visit not only on this earth, but all other worlds. I think this is kind of what we learn in D&C 88:51-61 read it, its kind of a nice parable.

And if he visited other worlds, did he have to be crucified and ressurected to save the people of other worlds?

No Christ is visiting to show them that he is the savior. Did Christ have to visit the Nephites, no. He did to show them the savior had fulfilled his mission.

Or was his one crucifixion and ressurection on Earth sufficient to save all children of God in this world and others?

(Look at that another question.) The Atonement was "sufficient" to save all of the Children of God. Where there address is doesn't matter. God can still find them.

[tubaloth]

Originally Posted by mandii

Allredcon, it's funny that you mentioned the book Mormon Doctrine because I was just about to borrow that from a local library. I'm guessing since you referenced it that it contains lots of valuable information. I wasn't sure because many LDSaints recommended it and others said to stay away from it because it would be too complex for someone who has just begun investigating the church.

My take on it is just that Mormon Doctrine is a study guide. Does that mean its all you should study, no. The only one that can truly teach you about Doctrine is the spirit.

I use to be on the side of "Anything Elder McConkie wrote is bad" I'm not that way anymore and I'm glad! Mormon Doctrine is organized kind of like an encyclopedia. You find a subject, and it gives you scriptures on that subject and then Elder McConkies way of explaining that subject. As long as you know thats what you are getting, then you know how to use that as a study guy, just like any other study book or teacher.

Not only is this book good, but others that Elder McConkie wrote like his Messiah series and one of my Personal favorite books is A New Witness to the Articles of Faith. From what I know it was actually published after he died. (He finished it just in time).

Truth can be found in many places, the key is to realize that truth comes from the spirit. That is what we seek to teach us.

[tubaloth]

Originally Posted by Moksha

Should we base our atonement speculations off of a variation of the geo-centric model, with Earth as the center of everything? The Catholic Church once put astronomers and theoreticians to death for arguing against this model. They have long since let go of it when newer and more accurate understanding became widespread.

Wouldn't the natural order and progression of things point to the older worlds getting on with their business rather than regard our planet as the center of things? Even the Book of Abraham facsimiles talk about Kolob as the starting point and mention the planets Enish-go-on-Dosh and Obliblish as being connected to the fifteen planet Stargate system powered by Kaukobeams. Why would they stall their progression for us to catch up?

Not really. If we knew the reason why Christ came here, then we could make arguments on why he came here vs not other worlds. I don't know if Adam or even the first created person sat around watching his watch waiting for the Atonement. I don't think there was some uprising in Spirit world for those telling Christ to go down now! Honestly I don't think there time frame falls with in our Time scale. From there death to Christ's atonement could be a week or a month in to us? The "When" it happens wasn't as important as "If" it happens to most I would think.

[Justice]

Although it's not the original topic of the thread, it seems to be related to the discussion.

I value Mormon Doctrine as a book. The same care needs to be used in reading it as when reading the scriptures. There are many things in the scriptures that can be misinterpreted. Also, there is much to be learned in Mormon Doctrine as long as it is a supplement for your learning and not your primary source.

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Misshalfway

"Mormon Doctrine" the book is NOT the gold standard for true mormon doctrine. The brethren actually chastized Bruce R for the book and even he himself said it was only his best knowledge at that time and that modern revelation would trump it.

Could you cite a few errors from the current edition?

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Snow

Could you cite a few errors from the current edition?

Sometimes it is hard to identify specific errors in speculation. You just have to accept it or offer an alternate speculation.