What did the lions eat?

[LostSheep]

I find it funny that there are other religions that totally believe this story, yet they think that Jesus visiting the Americas is ridiculous, because there's no scientific evidence to back it up.

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Vort

Three possible answers:
[list=1][*]Genesis 7:2-3
"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth."

Now, how you can take animals "by sevens" by taking "the male and his female", I've never quite understood. Nevertheless, you have an overabundance of "clean" (i.e. edible) animals. If you aren't concerned about genetic narrowing, that might give you some good eats, at least for a couple of days.

And why should we accept that account instead of the priestly account found in Genesis 6 (19) that very clearly stipulates that two, not seven of each animal was taken on board the boat?

"And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female."

[Snow]

Originally Posted by LostSheep

I find it funny that there are other religions that totally believe this story, yet they think that Jesus visiting the Americas is ridiculous, because there's no scientific evidence to back it up.

Well - do you find ridiculous the idea that Xenu, dictator of the Galactic Confederacy, 75 million years ago brought billions and billions of space aliens to earth, stacked them around volcanos and then killed them with hydrogen bombs?

[Moksha]

Snow, what are your observations on the nature of Xenu?

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Moksha

Snow, what are your observations on the nature of Xenu?

None. My point is that one man's religion is another's point of ridicule.

[Gwen]

Originally Posted by Snow

Well - do you find ridiculous the idea that Xenu, dictator of the Galactic Confederacy, 75 million years ago brought billions and billions of space aliens to earth, stacked them around volcanos and then killed them with hydrogen bombs?

Originally Posted by Snow

None. My point is that one man's religion is another's point of ridicule.

you are comparing apples and oranges where lost was comparing apples and apples....

i have never been a fan of mocking someone's beliefs even if i found it a bit out there. but i did not take lost's post as mocking or ridicule in nature. simply an irony he found amusing.

i can see the humor lost is pointing out. i find it amusing (in a non mocking way) that one can say the bible is literal, god did these things and yet it's IMPOSSIBLE that he would visit another continent and that the events in the book of mormon can't be real.... so a completely all powerful god that has no limits couldn't have done that? (if the argument is based on doctrine of why god would not do such a thing that's different, but to say he can't is a bit of a contradiction. creates a potentially amusing irony)

when you are talking about 2 christians that believe in the same god that's comparable. when you make it that of christian vs non christian faiths it loses the ability to be humorously ironic.

[Justice]

Snow, I think "two by two" is the issue. I don't see what animals can't be taken "two by two" of every kind and not have, say, 14 of some kind and 4 of another. The number has to be even if you take them 2 by 2, which I think is the point... even in a specific way, in fact, meaning male and female. With a close reading both scriptures can agree.

19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Two of every sort, male and female to keep them alive. Notice the words don't reflect so much to be kept alive from the flood, that's why they're in the ark to begin with. But, the basis of this verse is the perpetuation of species and that they would need one male for every female. I don't think this verse is saying ONLY 2 of each species, but that when you bring 14 of a species you need to have 7 males and 7 females. At least that's how I see it.

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Gwen

you are comparing apples and oranges where lost was comparing apples and apples....

i have never been a fan of mocking someone's beliefs even if i found it a bit out there. but i did not take lost's post as mocking or ridicule in nature. simply an irony he found amusing.

i can see the humor lost is pointing out. i find it amusing (in a non mocking way) that one can say the bible is literal, god did these things and yet it's IMPOSSIBLE that he would visit another continent and that the events in the book of mormon can't be real.... so a completely all powerful god that has no limits couldn't have done that? (if the argument is based on doctrine of why god would not do such a thing that's different, but to say he can't is a bit of a contradiction. creates a potentially amusing irony)

when you are talking about 2 christians that believe in the same god that's comparable. when you make it that of christian vs non christian faiths it loses the ability to be humorously ironic.

I'm not accusing lost of mocking. I'm answering his question [implied] question.

[Gwen]

Originally Posted by Snow

I'm not accusing lost of mocking. I'm answering his question [implied] question.

lol what was his implied question exactly? all i saw as a statement of amusement at the irony.

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Justice

Snow, I think "two by two" is the issue. I don't see what animals can't be taken "two by two" of every kind and not have, say, 14 of some kind and 4 of another. The number has to be even if you take them 2 by 2, which I think is the point... even in a specific way, in fact, meaning male and female. With a close reading both scriptures can agree.

19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Two of every sort, male and female to keep them alive. Notice the words don't reflect so much to be kept alive from the flood, that's why they're in the ark to begin with. But, the basis of this verse is the perpetuation of species and that they would need one male for every female. I don't think this verse is saying ONLY 2 of each species, but that when you bring 14 of a species you need to have 7 males and 7 females. At least that's how I see it.

The verse you quote doesn't say "only" two. It says "two." One could argue that when the author wrote "two" he really meant something other than two but I doubt that is what you are trying to say.

What's really going on is that there are two separate flood accounts by two separate authors. Those two accounts were meshed together, poorly, by a later redactor.

The P or priestly account is found starting in chapter 6 and clearly says TWO (not something different that two) of every kind and then specifics that the two are to be male and female.

The J or Yahwist account is found in chapter 7, where the priestly account is also meshed in but in the J account the J author reports a different version of the story. The way that he tells it that "clean" animals there are seven pairs (14) and from the "non-clean" there are 2.

The two Genesis accounts were written down over a thousand years after the flood happened. Of course different oral traditions are going to transmit the story differently.