Born Again and Saved

[Justice]

In case my post on the John 3:16 thread was too long for some to read, I'd like to make this additional thread.

I offer it is simply the willingness we have, through our love for and faith in Jesus Christ, to give of ourselves to others.

The word is sacrifice.

Christ did it, and He commands us to do it if we are to claim to be His.

YouTube - MormonMessages's Channel

[Traveler]

I find it most interesting that in the religious debates concerning salvation that there is discussion about what man needs to take upon themselves and what needs to be relied upon G-d. I find this interesting because LDS believe that a restoration or truth cannot be achieved even by the best works of man but it requires prophets and revelators like Moses and Isaiah of the Old Testament and Apostles like Peter, John and Paul (who utter living scripture by G-d direction) and traditional Christians believe that man on his own inspiration can interpret and determine what is scripture and doctrine even unto salvation.

Yet it would seem that LDS argue that man must contribute his own efforts and submit to the ordinances given by mercy from G-d, where as it appears to me that traditional Christians (Evangelicals) believe all is necessary is G-d’s mercy. I see the doctrines of Salvation as the twin of the doctrine of restoration, such that if our non-LDS-Christians applied their understanding of Salvation to the doctrine of restoration we would perhaps find more in common.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe this will help...Christians ought to be able to rest in the Lord, confident of his grace and mercy, trusting in those still waters he promises us. At the same time, we ought to live with a constant sense of urgency, knowing the hour is late, the harvest is ripe, the trumpet call of God is about to sound, and that we should be found ready, and about the Father's business.

Such is possible because Jesus is the Prince of Peace, and he promises that his burden is easy and light...and because we labor, knowing "it's not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit sayeth the Lord." (Zecharia 4:6 )

[Justice]

I'm curious what you thought of the video PC...

[prisonchaplain]

Can't watch it from work...will have to comment on it later.

[Rhi_Bran_y_Hud]

Originally Posted by Traveler

... traditional Christians believe that man on his own inspiration can interpret and determine what is scripture and doctrine even unto salvation.

Um... don't know about that; thought we were both getting scripture from God through prophets and apostles, etc. Perhaps we only disagree on exactly who qualifies as a mouth piece of God and who does not, but not on the method of receiving truth?

... LDS argue that man must contribute his own efforts and submit to the ordinances given by mercy from G-d, where as it appears to me that traditional Christians (Evangelicals) believe all is necessary is G-d’s mercy.

I think we would rather say that there is flat out, no ordinance to submit to when it comes to receiving salvation (eternal life). If there is any requirement or entry fee then it would simply be faith (but I'm sure that horse has been pulverized, so I won't go on about that).

I see the doctrines of Salvation as the twin of the doctrine of restoration, such that if our non-LDS-Christians applied their understanding of Salvation to the doctrine of restoration we would perhaps find more in common.

I'm not sure what you mean by restoration. If you mean the restoration of the true church, then I don't know how that relates to an evangelical's understanding of salvation by grace through faith. But if you mean restoration as the LDS teaching that the atonement has ensured that all people will go to some level of heaven, whether they believe in God or not, then I still fail to see how that is anything like the salvation which evangelicals preach.

The reason is that while God is the one doing the saving, it is the person who does the receiving and the deal is sealed for eternity. On the other hand, if the LDS teaching is true, the man who rejects God still has to put up with God's blessings in a level of heaven. Sure, it is technically better than hell or outer darkness, but the person's free will has been negated, something which God would never do (something we both believe I think).

[Justice]

Rhi, somewhere yoou got the wrong idea that we believe God will interfere with one's choices.

In fact, He must execute justice (punishment and reward) for our day-to-day actions (works).

Matthew 25 teaches this very plainly 3 times.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Rhi_Bran_y_Hud

Um... don't know about that; thought we were both getting scripture from God through prophets and apostles, etc. Perhaps we only disagree on exactly who qualifies as a mouth piece of God and who does not, but not on the method of receiving truth?

.....

Many of the ancient texts that are not included in Biblical canon were specifically identified and the reason published at the time the canon was created. Since then we have discovered that the reasons for rejection were not true. For example the "Testaments of the Patriarchs” and the “Book of Enoch” were both argued to not have Hebrew origin and to have been written after the New Testament was created. We now know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that the reason given for rejection is not true.

There is another interesting text that is exist and claims to come from the very hand of Jesus. For centuries Traditional Western Christians claimed it to be a forgery but with modern science it has been carbon dated to the time of Christ and analyzed to be parchment that could have only come from the area around Jerusalem – which means that for all the rules of validating ancient text this particular text is more valid than any other Biblical text in existence.

My problem is not with what we have – my problem is with those that argue that is it complete and as such is worthy of canon.

The Traveler

[jadams_4040]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Maybe this will help...Christians ought to be able to rest in the Lord, confident of his grace and mercy, trusting in those still waters he promises us. At the same time, we ought to live with a constant sense of urgency, knowing the hour is late, the harvest is ripe, the trumpet call of God is about to sound, and that we should be found ready, and about the Father's business.

Such is possible because Jesus is the Prince of Peace, and he promises that his burden is easy and light...and because we labor, knowing "it's not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit sayeth the Lord." (Zecharia 4:6 )

What is the fathers bussiness?

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by jadams_4040

What is the fathers bussiness?

Love God & neighbor (Matt. 22:37-40)

Proclaim the Good News, baptize new followers, teach people to grow in their faith (Matt 28:19-20)

And there's a whole lot of good stuff in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7)