Absolving previous temple marriage from the records - question

Seminarysnoozer · #1 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 10:20 PM

Since nobody really knows me here I think I am safe to say, "my sister" but for privacy this isn't my actual sister I am talking about ... and no it's not me either so don't worry about being too direct in your responses. Trying to remain anonymous and sincere.

'My sister' came to me with this question that I didn't have an answer for, maybe somebody knows. If her husband was married before in the temple for a short period of time and was divorced but did not get a temple divorce that marriage remains on his record even though my sister was later married to him in the temple. What she is concerned about is that this woman will somehow become worthy enough to be married and together with her husband in the afterlife, even though the marriage was not good and there were no kids.

If this 'first wife' never marries again in the temple does her name stay on his record forever or is there a way to remove that information shy of getting a temple divorce?

And a temple divorce requires the consent of both parties I imagine which she probably won't want to do if she was never married again.

She tells me it says on his record something like "previous sealing." or something like that. She sees it every time they do tithing settlement and also is concerned her kids seeing that designation some day. I can see how the other woman should still have the right to have the privileges of being married in the temple if she is repented (if the second hand stories I know about her are true).

I think 'my sister' is really concerned that somehow she will put all the effort in this life to have a perfect marriage in this life and still end up as a "second wife." And even have her kids be sealed to another wife, as if she gets first pick even though she was only in his wife for a few months. I told her I can't see how that would happen, I don't think the covenant of marriage is really valid between the two if the marriage dissolved and yet the privileges that come from it might still be there in the next life. I am not sure. I told her to go talk to her bishop about it, but I was wondering if any of you had experience with this type of issue.
Thank you.

TruthSeekerToo · #2 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 10:32 PM

I know a woman who was told no sealing cancellation unless she has a prospective DH to take to the temple.

I also will add that even if the sealing is cancelled there is no gaurantee that it won't be redone post-mortem. Actually, I'm 99% sure it will be done by proxy by someone later on.

That is why we go back to the principle of agency.

I am sorry your sister is struggling with this issue, though. It sounds like it is very tough for her.

bytebear · #3 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 11:06 PM

It sucks to be jealous of a dead woman.

TruthSeekerToo · #4 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bytebear

It sucks to be jealous of a dead woman.

I think the ex is still alive. He is sealed to them both. Civil divorce, no sealing cancellation.

Is that right?

bytebear · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthSeekerToo

I think the ex is still alive. He is sealed to them both. Civil divorce, no sealing cancellation.

Is that right?

ah, I re-read. that is a bit more realistic. But, still, I think the "fear of the afterlife" is a cop out to mask real feelings of the here and now. Deal with the real issues of inadequacy and jealousy, and the issues of the afterlife will simply become moot.

TruthSeekerToo · #6 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bytebear

ah, I re-read. that is a bit more realistic. But, still, I think the "fear of the afterlife" is a cop out to mask real feelings of the here and now. Deal with the real issues of inadequacy and jealousy, and the issues of the afterlife will simply become moot.

I agree, there are issues to be resolved in the present. I just have no idea what it must feel like to be married to someone who has been married before.
The sealing cancellation may only provide temporary relief for the underlying issues.

pam · #7 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 12:01 AM

Again I just think it's one of those things where we need to have faith and trust that Heavenly Father will work it all out. No one will be left out in the cold. That's not how He works for those that truly do endure.

MarginOfError · #8 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 02:57 AM

Your sister needs to learn more about the Sealing ordinance and covenant, and then she needs to stop romanticizing it.

The Sealing ordinance has virtually nothing to do with spending eternity with the person you love. In fact, getting to spend eternity with your spouse is a little bit like a neat side effect of the ordinance. What the ordinance is about is entering a covenant with the Lord that grants the individual certain rights and privileges that can make child rearing more enriching and links the individual to his or her posterity and ancestry.

What's more, the Lord has said that the Sealing ordinance is a necessary condition for salvation. When members who have made this covenant get divorced, the Church strongly discourages cancellation of the sealing because that would make the parties' covenants null, which would both wipe out the temporal blessings associated with the Sealing and disqualify the person from exaltation. At the same time, it would have no impact on whether or not the parties spent eternity together; presumably a divorced couple has already made that decision.

What your sister needs to do is learn to forgive and recognize that if the first woman does repent, she will still need the blessings associated with the prior sealing in order to continue her eternal progression. Again, the primary purpose of the Sealing ordinance is not to let us be with a person for eternity. It is to help us be better parents and better disciples of Christ.

Seminarysnoozer · #9 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Your sister needs to learn more about the Sealing ordinance and covenant, and then she needs to stop romanticizing it.

The Sealing ordinance has virtually nothing to do with spending eternity with the person you love. In fact, getting to spend eternity with your spouse is a little bit like a neat side effect of the ordinance. What the ordinance is about is entering a covenant with the Lord that grants the individual certain rights and privileges that can make child rearing more enriching and links the individual to his or her posterity and ancestry.

What's more, the Lord has said that the Sealing ordinance is a necessary condition for salvation. When members who have made this covenant get divorced, the Church strongly discourages cancellation of the sealing because that would make the parties' covenants null, which would both wipe out the temporal blessings associated with the Sealing and disqualify the person from exaltation. At the same time, it would have no impact on whether or not the parties spent eternity together; presumably a divorced couple has already made that decision.

What your sister needs to do is learn to forgive and recognize that if the first woman does repent, she will still need the blessings associated with the prior sealing in order to continue her eternal progression. Again, the primary purpose of the Sealing ordinance is not to let us be with a person for eternity. It is to help us be better parents and better disciples of Christ.

This is what I was trying to express to her but not as well as you did, partially because I was unsure about it myself. So, I think it is unlikely the bishop, or whoever has the authority to deal with such things could not take that name off this sister's husband church record? I wonder if it is possible to take it off his record but leave it on the ex-wife's record as he was remarried in the temple and she remains single (as far as I know) so it won't absolve his temple covenants by taking the first marriage off, or will it?

Gwen · #10 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 07:15 AM

i had this question when i was engaged to my husband (he had been sealed before)... i know exactly how she feels though i choose to deal with it before i got married. when i discussed it with my stake pres he used this explanation. when we make a covenant we must do our part here to have the promise. the promise of living a covenant marriage here is being able to have that marriage last for eternity (among other things). if a couple divorces they can not live the covenant they made here, thus they have no promise there. if the ex becomes worthy and never remarries it will be handled just like a person who lived worthy but never married at all in this life. she will have no claim upon my husband nor will he have claim upon her; they didn't live the covenant.

so i guess the only way i would be stuck living with his ex would be if he and i live our covenant, i die, she becomes worthy and they remarry and live the covenant..... i just don't see that happening, not losing any sleep over it. lol

as for what is written on his records.... he's got to live with the consequences of his choices. not sure the kids should be seeing his tithing settlement papers anyway. i don't show ours to our kids. i don't believe his previous sealing would show up on their records (though i could be wrong, never looked that close). even if it does show up the kids won't know what it says/means till they are old enough to understand it anyway, at that point they will ask and you can tell them (if they don't already know)... unless that's the idea, to hide it so they never know.