Divine Justice?

[Snow]

The author of Exodus blames God for some of the suffering heaped upon both the Israelites and Jews.

We learn from the text that Pharaoh would not listen Moses’ entreaties and hardened his heart against Israel. In response the Lord caused, not just Pharoah, but all of Egypt to suffer various evils and plagues. The Pharaoh ignores the plagues and continues with his hard heart. More God-induced suffering befalls Egypt up through 5 plagues. Then, however, God himself, according to the author of Exodus, actually takes over and hardens the Pharaoh's heart. In response to the hardened heart that God himself hardened, God sends additional evil upon Egypt.

In this case God is shown violating several principles of the gospel:

1. Free Agency: God removes Pharaoh's agency when He hardens Pharaoh's heart.
2. Justice: God visits evil on both the Egyptians and the Israelites because of both God’s and Pharaoh's heart hardening.

Paul, the author of Romans in the New Testament takes it even further in chapter 9 when he states that God didn’t just harden Pharaoh's heart in this particular instance but went so far as to raise Pharaoh up expressly in order to cause him to do what he did... God’s motivation being to demonstrate His power and extend His glory.

Why do some Bible authors have a view of God that is so fundamentally opposed to our understanding of a just and benevolent God?

[Justice]

I don't believe God hardened Pharaoh's heart. If you go back to the Hebrew it seems to be saying Pharaoh hardened his own heart and God allowed it.

I no longer have my Young's Analytical Concordance, but I studied this many years ago. Maybe if someone can show us the Hebrew for the verses in question...

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Justice

I don't believe God hardened Pharaoh's heart. If you go back to the Hebrew it seems to be saying Pharaoh hardened his own heart and God allowed it.

I no longer have my Young's Analytical Concordance, but I studied this many years ago. Maybe if someone can show us the Hebrew for the verses in question...

I doubt you speak or understand Hebrew but, okay, please demonstrate what you claim.

While you are at it, could you please tell us how it is that you can translate it correctly but the translators of the:

NIV
NASB
NLT
KJV
NKJV
ASV
etc

...all cannot.

[Just_A_Guy]

The JST says it was Pharaoh who hardened his own heart. See, e.g., Exodus 9:12. Romans 9:17 only says the Lord raised up Pharaoh to show the Lord's power; the original text of the subsequent verse seems somewhat ambiguous as to whether it was the Lord who was doing it or not; indeed, Verse 22 implies that the Lord's practice is actually to allow evil to endure in spite of His own wishes, the better to show forth His glory in the long run. At any rate--if Pharaoh had submitted to the Lord's prophet and freed Israel, would that not have simply been another manifestation of God's power?

I don't think we know enough about the political conditions of the day (especially whether Joe Egyptian agreed with keeping Israel as slaves, and the degree to which popular opinion could/did shape domestic policy) to determine whether the plagues on the Egyptian masses were truly "just". Even if you could document that many/most Egyptians didn't deserve what they got, how does that differ from anyone who suffers today from calamities caused by natural phenomenon that we generally accept to be controlled by divine power?

The tricky part, IMHO, is whether the plagues were such bald manifestations of God's power that they effectually denied Pharaoh of any meaningful degree of agency.

[MormonMama]

The JST says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. For example, Exodus 7:3 says "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart...." In the footnotes at the bottom, the Joseph Smith Translation for that passage says, "And Pharaoh will harden his heart, as I said unto thee...."

This pattern continues, with each indication of the Bible saying that God hardening Pharaoh's heart being countered with the JST saying that Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

The JST is a divinely inspired correction of some parts of the Bible that were mistranslated at some point during the many times it was passed from one language to another.

[prisonchaplain]

Is this not what happens when the Holy Spirit has been blasphemed? The sinner so completely resists and rejects the conviction of the Spirit that God removes any hope of repentence.

[deseretgov]

There's a chapter somewhere in the OT where God tells aprophet that He raised up a wicked people to destroy a nation. The prophet was dismayed that God would do such a thing.

I also remember God commanding Abraham to lie and tell Pharaoh that his wife was his sister.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by deseretgov

I also remember God commanding Abraham to lie and tell Pharaoh that his wife was his sister.

Abraham did engage in this ruse repeatedly. I'm not aware that God told him to, though.

[MormonMama]

PC is correct. I can find at least two instances where Abraham told Sarah to say she was his sister so that he would not be killed by men who desired her for her beauty, but God did not tell him to do it. In fact, in both cases God either punished or warned the men who tried to take Sarah, telling them the truth before they could take her carnally and commit that sin.

[Prodigal_Son]

This seems to fly in the face of the entire premise of us having our agency. Reminds me of the mistranslation in the Lord's prayer, "Lead me not into temptation."