White Horse Prophecy - is this real?

InquisitiveSoul · #1 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 10:51 AM

I've heard and read about the White Horse Prophecy - the Constitution will be hanging by a thread and church will save it - but is it a real prophecy?

I've been trying to find more information. What do you know about it? My question, is the White Horse Prophecy part of Mormon Doctrine or is it one of those things that people become carried away with?

Faded · #2 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 11:15 AM

I found this: Constitution to Hang by a Thread Believe All Things

It seems the teaching began with this:

Quote:

Joseph Smith July 19, 1840
We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c—Then the Enemy shall brake come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad when the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff upon which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear away the constitution away from the very verge of destruction—Then shall the Lord say go tell all my servants who are the strength of mine house my young men and middle aged &c come to the Land of my vineyard and fight the battle of the Lord—Then the Kings & Queens shall come then the rulers of the Earth shall come then shall all saints come yea the Foreign saints shall come to fight for the Land of my vineyard for in this thing shall be their safety and they will have no power to choose but will come as a man fleeth from a sudden destruction—But before this the time shall be when these who are now my friends shall become my enemies and shall seek to take my life and shall be m there are those now before me who will more furiously pursue me and the more dilligently seek to my life and be more blood thirsty upon my track than ever were the Missouri Mobbers You say among yourselves as did them of old time it is I & is it I But I know these things by the visions of the Almighty.

I don't know how it came to be known as the "White Horse" prophecy off the top of my head.

As Joseph Smith himself told us many many times, a prophet is not a prophet unless he is speaking in the name of the Lord. So this originating speech, while it does seem to have it's basis in revelation, could have been largely flavored with Joseph Smith's personal opinions.

HiJolly · #3 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 11:16 AM

It is the latter. Scholars have found no solid evidence for its authenticity.

HiJolly

Wingnut · #4 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InquisitiveSoul

My question, is the White Horse Prophecy part of Mormon Doctrine

No.

Quote:

or is it one of those things that people become carried away with?

Way too carried away.

InquisitiveSoul · #5 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 11:29 AM

I've read some speeches by Ezra Taft Benson where he discusses this in detail, suggesting it is true. Of course we all know where he stood politically, but if one of the Prophets discussed this in his Conference Talk, does it then make it doctrine?

I'm reading comments all over these forums on various topics and several people have mentioned topics becoming doctrine when they are covered in General Conference. Does that mean in a couple of weeks that any topic the Prophet speaks on is considered doctrine? For example if he says to stay away from milk (of course he won't say that) but does milk become added to the Word of Wisdom?

MarginOfError · #6 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

In General Conference in October 1918 Joseph Fielding Smith made the following comments:

Quote:

I have discovered that people have copies of a purported vision by the Prophet Joseph Smith given in Nauvoo, and some people are circulating this supposed vision, or revelation, or conversation which the prophet is reported to have held with a number of individuals in the city of Nauvoo. I want to say to you, my brethren and sisters, that if you understand the Church articles and covenants, if you will read the scriptures and become familiar with those things which are recorded in the revelations from the Lord, it will not be necessary for you to ask any questions in regard to the authenticity or otherwise of any purported revelation, vision, or manifestation that proceeds out of darkness, concocted in some corner, surreptitiously presented, and not coming through the proper channels of the Church. Let me add that when a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority, for it will be sent either to the presidents of stakes and the bishops of the wards over the signatures of the presiding authorities, Or it will be published in some of the regular papers or magazines under the control and direction of the Church or it will be presented before such a gathering as this, at a general conference. It will not spring up in some distant part of the Church and be in the hands of some obscure individual without authority, and thus be circulated among the Latter-day Saints. Now, you may remember this.

The White Horse Prophecy, in any of its variant forms, has never been submitted, or even considered, for such a process that would be required to make it canon or binding on the Church membership. It simply has not occurred!

Joseph Fielding Smith's father and President of the Church, Joseph F. Smith, followed immediately after his speech and said:

Quote:

The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have heard from time to time, and formulated this so-called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have put it forth. It is simply false; that is all there is to it.

http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/whitehorse.pdf

See Also
Newsroom Blog: Church Statement on "White Horse Prophecy" and Political Neutrality

So, while Elder Benson may have liked the sound of it, there were other prophets and apostles who thought it downright ludicrous.

However, if you want an alternative interpretation, some believe that the White Horse prophecy has already been fulfilled...................by Harry Reid

Wingnut · #7 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InquisitiveSoul

I've read some speeches by Ezra Taft Benson where he discusses this in detail, suggesting it is true. Of course we all know where he stood politically, but if one of the Prophets discussed this in his Conference Talk, does it then make it doctrine?

I'm reading comments all over these forums on various topics and several people have mentioned topics becoming doctrine when they are covered in General Conference. Does that mean in a couple of weeks that any topic the Prophet speaks on is considered doctrine? For example if he says to stay away from milk (of course he won't say that) but does milk become added to the Word of Wisdom?

No. This page will be helpful to you in making distinctions: http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochure...n_Doctrine.pdf. I would especially read the 3rd section. Also this: Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom.

hordak · #8 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InquisitiveSoul

I've read some speeches by Ezra Taft Benson where he discusses this in detail, suggesting it is true. Of course we all know where he stood politically, but if one of the Prophets discussed this in his Conference Talk, does it then make it doctrine?

I'm reading comments all over these forums on various topics and several people have mentioned topics becoming doctrine when they are covered in General Conference. Does that mean in a couple of weeks that any topic the Prophet speaks on is considered doctrine? For example if he says to stay away from milk (of course he won't say that) but does milk become added to the Word of Wisdom?

Absolutely. A quick Gem from 2009.

Quote:

Unfortunately, the sack lunch contained an egg salad sandwich. For those of you who don’t understand the significance of this, may I just say that egg salad must be refrigerated

Egg salad must be refrigerated. Anyone putting it in a cooler is in direct violation of the Prophets instructions and therefor an Apostate.

No.

where is Vahnan with that link?

InquisitiveSoul · #9 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 12:41 PM

Well hordak, you have to be careful with egg salad, it can turn on you in a hurry.

marts1 · #10 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 12:53 PM

It's true new doctrine would not come like this but have you ever heard anything during a general conference that is not true?