Biblical references for "voice of my servants, it is the same"

tomdelonge · #1 (**permalink**) 03-13-2011, 09:59 PM

I have a friend who is not lds. I explained that we believe that church authority speaking is the same as Christ speaking. She doesn't accept this (aside from not believing the lds church), claiming it isn't biblical. When I bring up from amos where it says something about "surely the lord doeth nothing except by his prophets" or something along those lines, she says she doesn't believe the old testament applies in these days. So basically, is there any story/example/verse from the New Testament I can give to support this idea? Or is the only possibility to use circular reasoning? (Joseph smith can speak for Christ, because Christ said he can. When did he say Joseph can? When Joseph said that Christ said he could)

You see my dilemma?

livy111us · #2 (**permalink**) 03-13-2011, 10:13 PM

What is the point in even having the Old Testament if you discard it? Christ sure used it a lot as well as NT Prophets and Apostles, so where does she get it that it does not apply?

While out of the Old Testament, this is a better scripture than Amos 3:7 on the subject:

Ex. 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou [Moses] shalt be to him instead of God.

I think your best bet would be to show the fallacy of ignoring the Old Testament.

jayanna · #3 (**permalink**) 03-13-2011, 10:42 PM

Okay, isn't the entire New Testament actually testimonies of the Lord's servants? The entire thing is not written by Jesus...so to say that we can't receive the Lord's word through others discounts all scripture altogether.

btw in Rev. 11 two prophets will be slain in Jerusalem, how can that happen if there aren't any more prophets?

rameumptom · #4 (**permalink**) 03-14-2011, 06:46 AM

Ephesians 2 tells us that the Church's foundation is made of "apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone." In chapter 4, Paul also teaches that we need prophets and apostles until the 2nd Coming, when we all come into the unity of faith.

Acts 5 shows an example of Ananias and Sapphira attempting to deceive the apostle Peter, and the Lord slaying them both for doing so.

Today, we follow the New Testament's teachings, because they were written by church leaders, including apostles and prophets. They are authoritative to us. There is a pattern that God began with Adam and it continued into and through the times of the New Testament. This pattern continues today, and will continue until the 2nd Coming, as the apostle John prophesied there would be 2 prophets in Jerusalem during Armageddon (Rev 11).

Wingnut · #5 (**permalink**) 03-14-2011, 09:30 AM

Sounds like your friend probably doesn't want to believe, and is actively seeking reasons not to. She feels confident in the absence of such a statement in the New Testament. Anything you come up with will do little to convince her.

mnn727 · #6 (**permalink**) 03-15-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Sounds like your friend probably doesn't want to believe, and is actively seeking reasons not to. She feels confident in the absence of such a statement in the New Testament. Anything you come up with will do little to convince her.

I agree.
Like you I used to try to supply arguments out of the Bible, but you know, we're NOT a 'Bible-only' believing people, so its an unreasonable request to make us prove everything out of just the Bible.
Either someone has an open enough mind to put Moronis promise to the test or they don't, and if they don't then there is nothing in the world that would make them believe.

Just_A_Guy · #7 (**permalink**) 03-15-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdelonge

I have a friend who is not lds. I explained that we believe that church authority speaking is the same as Christ speaking.

Well . . . mostly. Joseph Smith taught very clearly that "a prophet is only a prophet when he is speaking as such".

skippy740 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-15-2011, 09:23 PM

Find any verse that contains "Thus Saith The Lord God".

Amos 3:7

"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secrets unto his servants, the prophets."

There is a verse in the New Testament where Christ is talking to Peter. Saying "Upon this rock will I build my church." The rock is the priesthood and modern revelation. Catholics may believe differently, but there's a New Testament example for you.

Matthew0059 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-16-2011, 08:22 PM

I think Wingnut summarized it perfectly.

Essentially, your friend only believes what is convenient and expedient for her own idiosyncratic belief system. The very fact that she would hold the Bible in such regard as to demand a biblical reference shows that she accepts the notion of prophets being able to speak in GOD'S name.