Recognizing Counterfeit

[JudoMinja]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. We've had several threads talking about the difference between love and lust (and everything in between). We had a thread on the occult. And this has been cropping up in my mind during talks and lessons at church, and my scripture reading. What seemed to really tie things together though happened Saturday- I was watching the "Prince of Egypt" with my son.

I'm pretty sure most of you have already seen the "Prince of Egypt" and know what it is about, but for those who do not it is basically just the story of Moses. When Moses first comes back to visit Pharaoh and ask him to let the people go, he demonstrates God's power by turning his staff into a cobra. The priests of Ra, however, do the very same thing. Pharaoh uses this as an excuse to ignore Moses and believes Moses' power is no different than that of his priests. Yet, Moses' snake eats the ones the priests' created, something the priests could not accomplish.

As Moses continues to perform more of God's miracles, the priests continue to attempt to replicate them. Their ability to do so is always limited. They find that they are able to do the "same" thing to a degree, but their replications are always of a lesser quality than that of Moses. This is a perfect example of how Satan attempts to counterfeit the things of God. The priests had "magic", but their magic could not match that of the power of God. Satan has many powers and abilities which he uses to lead us astray, but upon deeper examination we always find that the things of his power are "less" than that of God.

What are some more examples of Satan's counterfeits? How does he use these counterfeits to deceive? How can we recognize and avoid them? Discuss!

[anatess]

Me first!

Happiness is the first thing that comes to my mind. A lot of goodly folks (did you get the use of a Forgotten Realm word? ) are satisfied with the fleeting joy of earthly pleasures and are blind to the eternal joy of charity.

I see this a lot in marriages. A lot of marriages fail because of too much "what about me?" - the fleeting joy - and fail to see the "what about us?" of eternal joy.

You like?

[JudoMinja]

Some more thoughts on the topic to stimulate discussion...

Just what is counterfeit, exactly? In the most general terms it is a false replication of something legitimately of value. Most commonly, counterfeiting refers to money, but there are many forms of counterfeit. In the film "Catch Me If You Can"- based loosely on real events- one sees the use of counterfeit checks, identification, liscensures, and degrees. There are also people who make their entire career off the production of counterfeited art items- some legally some not. Each counterfeited item is made to appear as close to the real thing as possible. This allows the counterfeiter to pass it off as a genuine article to those unable to recognize the differences between it and the item from which it was counterfeited. Despite the ability to receive something of value in exchange with those who have been hoodwinked by the items seeming reality, the item is really worth much less than the actual item and usual worth absolutely nothing.

A skilled counterfeiter can make their counterfeits so like the "real thing" that any differences are virtually negligent. The true value is not in its appearance or similarities, but in its source. Satan is an extremely skilled counterfeiter, and he can make items so similar to that which we can receive from the Lord even the most elect can find themselves fooled. Yet, in the long run these are worthless because of their source. Any thing "of this earth" (Satan's counterfeits) is worth nothing when we stand before God. The only thing of any true value is that which comes from the true source of happiness- God. That is why when we look out for number one (thanks anatess ), we find ourselves experiencing only a temporary happiness. We can feel good about our accomplishments and belongings, but this feeling is fleeting. Eventually, it fades away and we still feel empty inside.

[RipplecutBuddha]

Somewhere else on this forum, someone said something to the effect that sinning may well be fun, but it isn't true happiness.

Fun only lasts in the moment. True happiness cannot be dulled by time. An example I have is memories of my dog that passed away before I returned from my mission. Whenever I think of that dog a smile is on my face, and I can all but see him in front of me.

There is no way that sinning in any form can do that.

[RadDad]

okay...counterfeits:
law of chastity....living together/premarital sex
eternal marriage....easy divorce
word of wisdom......get high
tithing.........expensive toys
eternal families...abortion/babies out of wedlock
prophet of God on the earth.....there is no more prophecy/bible is the only thing we need.
priesthood by authority....called from bible or college

almost everything that the Lord holds important, there is a counterfeit for. that is how satan works his half lies and deceptions. i realize that there are many nonmembers on this site, but i also know thas to be the truth and i hope you will not be offended.

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by RadDad

okay...counterfeits:
law of chastity....living together/premarital sex
eternal marriage....easy divorce
word of wisdom......get high
tithing.........expensive toys
eternal families...abortion/babies out of wedlock
prophet of God on the earth.....there is no more prophecy/bible is the only thing we need.
priesthood by authority....called from bible or college

almost everything that the Lord holds important, there is a counterfeit for. that is how satan works his half lies and deceptions. i realize that there are many nonmembers on this site, but i also know thas to be the truth and i hope you will not be offended.

Actually I'd change a few of those, for a couple you've kinda got opposites no so much counterfeits. The idea behind a counterfeit is to mimic the real thing not just be a replacement for it.

For instance I'd be more inclined to say:

Law of Chastity - Well, we love each other!
Word of Wisdom - "Moderation in all things."

[skippy740]

Patriarchal Blessings... Fortune Tellers & Psychics

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by JudoMinja

Some more thoughts on the topic to stimulate discussion...

Just what is counterfeit, exactly? In the most general terms it is a false replication of something legitimately of value. Most commonly, counterfeiting refers to money, but there are many forms of counterfeit. In the film "Catch Me If You Can"- based loosely on real events- one sees the use of counterfeit checks, identification, liscensures, and degrees. There are also people who make their entire career off the production of counterfeited art items- some legally some not. Each counterfeited item is made to appear as close to the real thing as possible. This allows the counterfeiter to pass it off as a genuine article to those unable to recognize the differences between it and the item from which it was counterfeited. Despite the ability to receive something of value in exchange with those who have been hoodwinked by the items seeming reality, the item is really worth much less than the actual item and usual worth absolutely nothing.

A skilled counterfeiter can make their counterfeits so like the "real thing" that any differences are virtually negligent. The true value is not in its appearance or similarities, but in its source. Satan is an extremely skilled counterfeiter, and he can make items so similar to that which we can receive from the Lord even the most elect can find themselves fooled. Yet, in the long run these are worthless because of their source. Any thing "of this earth" (Satan's counterfeits) is worth nothing when we stand before God. The only thing of any true value is that which comes from the true source of happiness- God. That is why when we look out for number one (thanks anatess ), we find ourselves experiencing only a temporary happiness. We can feel good about our accomplishments and belongings, but this feeling is fleeting. Eventually, it fades away and we still feel empty inside.

I think this is a very good post. A few years I was doing some consulting for the Federal Reserve Bank in Denver. I got in a discussion with one of the management at the Federal Reserve Bank about counterfeits. He said there was one sure fool proof means to identify counterfeits that works 100% of the time with no failures ever - regardless of how good or crafty a counterfeit is.

Well this had my undivided interest. He took one of the bills in the bank and showed it to me. See right here, he said. This says that the money was issued by the US Treasury department and this is the signature of the department head when the currency was made. All you have to do to know if the money is valid or counterfeit is take the bill to the source. If the US treasury department says that the money is valid then it is - by law it is valid. If the US treasury department says the money is counterfeit then by law that money is no good. It does not matter who made the money or why or how. What matters is if the US treasury department accepts the money as valid.

Wow, I thought. This same principle applies to religion and G-d. If G-d says the religion is valid then it is - regardless of what-ever anybody else thinks says or does. All other claims do not matter, what scripture says does not matter - it does not matter how close a religion copies ancient scripture - none of that makes any doctrine valid - the only validation comes from G-d.

As far as I know and have ever seen - the LDS church is the only church I know of that has a document that claims that G-d has spoken and said that this church is not counterfeit. I understand that claiming so does not make it so - but as far as I know - no other church can produce a document or claim that G-d has declared that religion real and not counterfeit. Something to think about.

The Traveler

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by RadDad

okay...counterfeits:
law of chastity....living together/premarital sex
eternal marriage....easy divorce
word of wisdom......get high
tithing.........expensive toys
eternal families...abortion/babies out of wedlock
prophet of God on the earth.....there is no more prophecy/bible is the only thing we need.
priesthood by authority....called from bible or college

almost everything that the Lord holds important, there is a counterfeit for. that is how satan works his half lies and deceptions. i realize that there are many nonmembers on this site, but i also know thas to be the truth and i hope you will not be offended.

On behalf of all the nonmembers here, I'd like to say how offended we are!

We love our orgies of premarital sex, squander our money like the Prodigal Son, have abortions every five minutes, live our lives in a drug-induced stupor....and worst of all we trust the Bible!

How dare you criticize these things, or suggest there might be a better alternative?

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by Traveler

As far as I know and have ever seen - the LDS church is the only church I know of that has a document that claims that G-d has spoken and said that this church is not counterfeit. I understand that claiming so does not make it so - but as far as I know - no other church can produce a document or claim that G-d has declared that religion real and not counterfeit. Something to think about.

The Traveler

Except of course the miracles attributed to Our Lady of Lourdes, manifestations of the Spirit in the Toronto Blessing, the visions of Evan Roberts, Julian of Norwich and St. Hildegard of Bingen, modern day Prophecies in Tongues (in other churches than the LDS), Slaying in the Spirit etc....

Of course there's no guarantee that any (or all) of these aren't counterfeit, but the same could be said of Joseph Smith and his successors. As far as I "know or have ever seen", neither side trumps the other as far as claims of counterfeiting go.