The Prodigal son

[changed]

spurred from another thread... what are your thoughts on the below scripture?

(New Testament | Luke 16:8)
the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

My husband and I were talking about the parable of the prodigal son - the kids were watching a veggie-tales account of it, and my husband said that the veggie tales account missed one of the most important parts of the parable... in the veggie-tales version the story centers around the "prodigal son" rather than from the point of view of the good son who stays at home and does everything he was supposed to do... my husband at times feels a little like the "good son" in this parable, and commented something about - what about the good son? trying to rationalize feeling unfairly acknowledged etc. etc.

anyways, combo of that and of another previous thread, I wrote up a little expanded parable for those who have time to read it on how I think it might work out... and wanted to know what you thought about the idea that

(New Testament | Luke 16:8)
the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

and this:

(New Testament | Luke 7:47)
to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

for those who have grown up in the church rather than in the world, how do you gain genuine knowledge of the world?

for those who have grown up in the world, how do we overcome the stereotypes of being "the lesser crowd" as some would call it?

parable...

The Prodigal son


A certain man had two sons… The oldest son was a hard-working righteous child who honored his parents and was honored by them in return. Friends and distant relatives praised his noble character and admonished their children to be more like him. He was the subject of praise and envy, of high expectations, trust, and pride.

As time went by, the man was blessed with another son. If you have lived in a family with more than one child, you already know some of the stereotypes which surround both the first born, and the baby of the family. The elder son is blessed with the advantage of age and will always be a little more experienced, wise, and talented than the younger members of the family. The younger members are constantly compared to their older, better, smarter sibling without ever having the ability to quite measure up. And so it was that one day, the younger son in despair asked his Father for his inheritance, and left the home of his birth.

As the younger son traveled through the countryside, he was confronted with something he had never experienced before – praise. He worked hard in the various farms and establishments he came across for board and lodging. Rather than being criticized for not working as well or as hard as his elder brother, he was now appreciated for his work. The younger son came from a well-to-do refined family and this background gave him an advantage in comparison with most of the other vagabonds which roamed the countryside. For the first time in his life the younger son was held in high esteem by those around him.

The younger son loved the praise and appreciation he was now given, but lacked the maturity to wear the mantle that was placed upon his shoulders. The less fortunate gathered around the younger son for help and support, and he helped them in the only way he knew how. He gave away his inheritance rather than scolding them to “work harder” as he had been scolded. He gave them unconditional love as they wanted to be loved rather than distance himself from them as he had been distanced. Some said the younger son wasted his substance with riotous living. The younger son was not trying to be evil though, he was only trying to be close and appreciated by those around him.

We are influenced by, and become like, those we form relationships with. It did not take long for the younger son to become like those in the far country he found himself in. No longer was he the strange novel wealthy tourist. The younger son became a fellow citizen like everyone else. His previous notoriety dimmed and vanished, praise vanished, and his inheritance slipped away. When sickness and famine swept through the far country, the younger brother found himself alone competing with pigs for food.

With gnawing pains in his stomach, the younger brother thought back to the great feasts in the home of his birth. How he yearned for the succulent lamb and tender greens of his parent’s table. I will arise and go to my father, reasoned the younger son, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee and am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

The younger son thought of the kindly servants whom he had grown up with. Unlike his family, the servants had never looked down on him. He realized how much love he had received from his nursemaid, and thought of the many acts of kindness that had been shown to him by all the humble servants. They had been there for him before, and perhaps they would not mind if he was allowed to join with them again. And so it was that the younger son stood up and started walking down the road back to his home – back to the servants which he loved and had loved him.

Twas not a servant, but his father, who first recognized and ran out to greet him as the young son neared the old house though. As a child we see our parents as parents instead of people. In that moment, the younger son started to see his father as a person – a person who had recognized the struggles of the younger son; a person who loved him enough to give him the resources and freedom to go into the world and learn those things that could not be learned at home.

The elder son pouted when the younger was given robe and ring and fatted calf. The elder could not understand the merry music and dancing for the one who has gained wisdom. In the coming years the humble younger son became a treasured friend and confidant among the servants and with his parents. No one felt embarrassed or little around him because he had descended below them all. The younger son listened to others, and when he spoke or gave advice he did so through personal experience rather than merely from a book. And so it was, that although the elder son went on to prosper with fertile fields and cattle, the younger son seemed to always have the most love from those around him.

Edit - alternate ending

The elder son pouted when the younger was given robe and ring and fatted calf. The elder could not at first understand the merry music and dancing for the one who has gained wisdom. The first year back home was marked with both joys and sorrows. A joyful reunion, but with sorrow over lost memories and an awkwardness over the lost familiarity which comes between people who have been separated for some period of time. The young son had to get to know everyone all over again. He had to make amends the best he could towards those whom he had hurt, the last of which, was his brother.

On the anniversary of his return, after a year of hard work, the youngest brother had saved up enough to give robe and ring and his best fatted calf to the elder brother. The younger honored his elder brother with singing and dancing and feasting the likes of which no one had ever seen before. At the end of the evening, the younger brother knelt weeping in front of his elder brother, asking for forgiveness and wishing for brotherhood. The elder brother took him up in his arms, forgave him, and asked the younger brother for forgiveness – for not receiving him back home with the warmth and joy he should have had. There were tears and hugs all around between friends and family, who, after a year of being together, had finally become truly united once more.


In the coming years the humble younger son became a treasured friend and confidant among the servants and with his parents and siblings. No one felt embarrassed or little around him because he had descended below them all. The humble younger son listened to others, and when he spoke or gave advice he did so through personal experience rather than merely from a book. Although forgiven, the humble younger son worked hard always mindful of the unpayable debt which he owed to his family. The elder son also worked hard and prospered through his industry and thrift. The elder son was honored by all for his steadfast obedience and his charitable forgiving nature. The next generation who grew up in that household never knew all the details behind a certain annual celebration, but they did know that their family was distinguished above others by the love and care which everyone had for one another.

sorry for the wall of words

[Vort]

Originally Posted by changed

My husband and I were talking about the parable of the prodigal son - the kids were watching a veggie-tales account of it, and my husband said that the veggie tales account missed one of the most important parts of the parable... in the veggie-tales version the story centers around the "prodigal son" rather than from the point of view of the good son who stays at home and does everything he was supposed to do... my husband at times feels a little like the "good son" in this parable, and commented something about - what about the good son? trying to rationalize feeling unfairly acknowledged etc. etc.

I think your husband is right. Years ago, I read Jesus the Christ where Talmage pointed out that the parable was not about the so-called "prodigal". It was about the elder son. I didn't like Talmage's interpretation, but he was clearly right. I think this parable may be one of the most profound and difficult that the Savior taught. At some time or other, each of us considers himself/herself to be in the position of the elder son. When we're the "prodigal", we're all for forgiveness. But what about when we are the elder son? Can we truthfully celebrate with our younger brother and gladly "kill the fatted calf", even when our own faithful efforts pass largely unrecognized (or so it seems to us)?

I see this parable as a call to Godliness. Note that in the parable, the father did not scold the elder son or "guilt-trip" him. He did not deny what the elder son claimed. He simply said, in a loving way, "All that I have is thine. It was meet that we make merry, for this thy brother was dead and is alive."

Originally Posted by changed

for those who have grown up in the church rather than in the world, how do you gain genuine knowledge of the world?

I have little desire to "gain genuine knowledge of the world" or to have my children gain such. I am not convinced that the world has any "genuine knowledge" worth gaining. But the fact is that we live in the world. We cannot escape it; the world is too much with us. We have no choice about living in the world. Our duty is to work not to be of the world.

PS I think the retelling of the parable completely misses the point of the Lord's teachings.

[changed]

Originally Posted by Vort

I have little desire to "gain genuine knowledge of the world" or to have my children gain such. I am not convinced that the world has any "genuine knowledge" worth gaining.

but it is impossible for you to mourn with those who mourn, to understand, or have true empathy for others, if you have not actually experienced what they have experienced.

PS I think the retelling of the parable completely misses the point of the Lord's teachings.

how so? you did not like how I justified the actions of the younger son perhaps?

we have all kept our first estate... most people have good in them and act through what they know... what is wrong with revealing someone to be good but misinformed, rather than evil?

[Suzie]

for those who have grown up in the church rather than in the world, how do you gain genuine knowledge of the world?

Before answering, what do you mean by "genuine" knowledge?

[changed]

Originally Posted by Suzie

Before answering, what do you mean by "genuine" knowledge?

like my aunt is now an AA councilor... she is really good at it and can help people because she has gone through the program herself she has "genuine" knowledge. ... or perhaps I mean wisdom/experience rather than just knowledge... you have to admit that there is a depth within a relationship which is gained through shared experiences... like how Jesus actually experienced what we have, and it is through this shared experience that we can grow close to him...

not that we want to go out and experience it all, but it seems like there is a gap between those who have experience and those who do not - is it possible to bridge that gap? perhaps not

[Dove]

Hello, Changed;
I think trusting in God to give us the "experiences" we need without going into the world to try and garner them ourselves is key here. All of us experience the pain and opposition of life, in one form or another. Going out to become a part of an evil world just so we can know how to relate to others who either chose that path or were thrust into it may not obtain the desired effect and may actually put us in far worse jeopardy for our salvation then we ever foresaw.

I like what you say about humility and relating to others in their experiences. I would also say to trust that there are people that you can relate to and help through the Spirit. It just may not be of the group you're referring to. No worries, we are all highly valued by God, and each soul is worth reaching out to.....Let the Spirit guide you as to whom you can succor/help.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by changed

but it is impossible for you to mourn with those who mourn, to understand, or have true empathy for others, if you have not actually experienced what they have experienced.

I disagree with this. I can mourn with the couple who just lost their baby, even though I have never experienced that loss. I can empathize with the brother cut off for fornication, even though I have never fornicated. I can support and encourage the sister struggling with a cigarette or alcohol or heroin habit, even though I have never used any of those substances.

I have had plenty of experiences in my life that I can generalize to allow me some empathy for those whose situations are not precisely like mine. For that matter, no one's situation is ever precisely like mine, so if we believed what you say above, the conclusion would be that no one can ever empathize with anyone else.

Originally Posted by changed

how so? you did not like how I justified the actions of the younger son perhaps?

The parable is not about the younger son. More importantly, the parable most certainly is not about how the younger son ended up being a better person than his obedient older brother because of his irresponsibility, prodigality, and fornication. This is not merely false; it is anti-gospel. Not sinning is always better than sinning.

Originally Posted by changed

we have all kept our first estate... most people have good in them and act through what they know... what is wrong with revealing someone to be good but misinformed, rather than evil?

Because that violates the purpose of the parable. The so-called "prodigal" was not merely misinformed; he was rebellious and irresponsible, and he suffered the consequences of his actions. We rejoice in his return, but no one ought to suppose that his wasteful and sinful life was somehow a desirable one, or that the elder brother was somehow less honorable because he stayed and worked hard in obedience to his father.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by changed

like my aunt is now an AA councilor... she is really good at it and can help people because she has gone through the program herself she has "genuine" knowledge. ... or perhaps I mean wisdom/experience rather than just knowledge... you have to admit that there is a depth within a relationship which is gained through shared experiences... like how Jesus actually experienced what we have, and it is through this shared experience that we can grow close to him...

not that we want to go out and experience it all, but it seems like there is a gap between those who have experience and those who do not - is it possible to bridge that gap? perhaps not

I think this parable can be applied as well:

41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

[changed]

Originally Posted by Dove

Hello, Changed;
I think trusting in God to give us the "experiences" we need without going into the world to try and garner them ourselves is key here. All of us experience the pain and opposition of life, in one form or another. Going out to become a part of an evil world just so we can know how to relate to others who either chose that path or were thrust into it may not obtain the desired effect and may actually put us in far worse jeopardy for our salvation then we ever foresaw.

I agree.

[/quote] I like what you say about humility and relating to others in their experiences. I would also say to trust that there are people that you can relate to and help through the Spirit. It just may not be of the group you're referring to. No worries, we are all highly valued by God, and each soul is worth reaching out to.....Let the Spirit guide you as to whom you can succor/help.[/QUOTE]

It is true that one blind person can have more empathy and understanding for another... but it is also true that the blind cannot lead the blind...

[changed]

Originally Posted by Vort

I disagree with this. I can mourn with the couple who just lost their baby, even though I have never experienced that loss. I can empathize with the brother cut off for fornication, even though I have never fornicated. I can support and encourage the sister struggling with a cigarette or alcohol or heroin habit, even though I have never used any of those substances.

yes, we can mourn with them, but the greater empathy and understanding I think still comes through those who have had similar experiences...

I have had plenty of experiences in my life that I can generalize to allow me some empathy for those whose situations are not precisely like mine. For that matter, no one's situation is ever precisely like mine, so if we believed what you say above, the conclusion would be that no one can ever empathize with anyone else.

There are different degrees of empathy, the closer the shared experiences are, the greater the empathy can be I think..

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 13:12)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

it will be interesting to see how we gain the knowledge to see everyone face to face... we know how Jesus gained his knowledge...

The parable is not about the younger son. More importantly, the parable most certainly is not about how the younger son ended up being a better person than his obedient older brother because of his irresponsibility, prodigality, and fornication. This is not merely false; it is anti-gospel. Not sinning is always better than sinning.

The parable is about all of the above I think. Yes, it is always better not to sin - but there is another lesson in here about not being a pharisee (so to speak)... what is the greater sin? the greater sin is to not forgive... did the elder brother forgive?

Because that violates the purpose of the parable. The so-called "prodigal" was not merely misinformed; he was rebellious and irresponsible, and he suffered the consequences of his actions. We rejoice in his return, but no one ought to suppose that his wasteful and sinful life was somehow a desirable one, or that the elder brother was somehow less honorable because he stayed and worked hard in obedience to his father.

We are each brought to earth, like the prodigal son we each leave our heavenly home and partake in an imperfect life - and we do this because we come back home wiser than when we left. If there was no gain to be had in experiencing pain/suffering/sin, God would not have sent us here to earth...

yes, love through obedience or love through humility/forgiveness... "to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. " ... each path can lead to the same reward.