failing to endure to the end?

[james12]

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion

Speaking generally, what happens if I knowingly don't "endure to the end"? And, why? Can't I just repent in the spirit world? If I can't do that, then for what reason can I not?

I'm not sure what you are really asking. When you talk about not enduring to the end do you mean that the weight of what is expected of you is bringing you down and you are considering doing less? Or do you mean that you are considering committing a sin of comission and repenting later? I believe that between these two issues is a world of difference.

Based on your comment about repenting in the spirit world I suspect it is the latter. This lie Satan speaks is so subtle. We are not earning points in the "good" column to reach heaven. We cannot simply remove points from the "bad" column through repentance. As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are! The light of our spirit is darkened, the natural man takes control, and our thoughts are confused. This is why it is hard to return and repent, because we think and feel differently then we did before we committed the sin. After the sin we make excuses and try and justify what we have done. We find reasons to postpone repentance, often assuming we will do it later. We think we are strong when we are actually weak, and the lies go on and on.

Now regarding repentance in the spirit world. From all I have read it appears that repentance in the spirit world is much more difficult than in this world. Some authorities have estimated ten times more difficult. Why? I believe it is because we will not have a body. A body gives us power over those spirits who do not have bodies including Satan and his hosts.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by james12

As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are!

Truer words were never spoken. Maybe I'll make this my sig.

EDIT: James, do you mind?

[ihaveaquestion]

I apologize for making this second account. I was unaware it was against the rules and probably should have known it was anyways. I meant no harm by it. It was essentially for the purpose of changing my username and I planned on then sticking with this account. Can I just delete the other one?

...As far as this thread, I'm getting a lot out of it. Thanks everybody. I think it's necessary that I mention that I have no plans on breaking my covenants by either premeditated sin or sins of omission. I'm just trying to understand a doctrine that hasn't quite sat right with me lately. I apologize for playing devil's advocate in my style of asking. I just thought it might illicit a more direct answer. I always have questions about the gospel because I'm always thinking about it, but I'm the only member of my family and I'm fairly new in my ward so I don't have a ton of people to direct all of my questions to.

Sorry for any confusion.

From everyone's comments and from the scriptures I have read since I made this thread, I believe God will judge everyone's situation individually, but generally speaking, we have to endure to end to inherit eternal life (2 Ne 9:24, 3 Ne 27:17, Mosiah 2:38-39, and Mosiah 15:26). I'd really like to understand why though. I believe the answer is stated in Alma 34:32-34, but I'm not completely understanding.

[james12]

Originally Posted by Vort

Truer words were never spoken. Maybe I'll make this my sig.

EDIT: James, do you mind?

Not at all, I appreciate the compliment.

[ConvinceTheWorld]

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion

what happens if I knowingly don't "endure to the end"? And, why? Can't I just repent in the spirit world?

Man has the godgiven gift of free agency.

Therefore you may do anything you wish.

You must know however, that when you do something that is contrary or against the law it is sin. The justice and judgement of sin will fall on nobody's head but your own. You cant trick yourself into thinking you can somehow escape by repenting later. Dont procrastinate the day of your repentence, nor die in your sins for the realization of your own guilt will be of the most bitter kind, a place set aside where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
Ezekial 20:43

14 Wherefore, we shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, and our uncleanness, and our nakedness; and the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment, and their righteousness, being clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousness.
2nd Nephi 9:14

25 And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls.
Mosiah 3:25

43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.
Alma 11:43

[Blackmarch]

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion

Speaking generally, what happens if I knowingly don't "endure to the end"? And, why? Can't I just repent in the spirit world? If I can't do that, then for what reason can I not?

Thank you.

If you abuse it, you lose it.
And why not? Because then God would have to allow everyone else in the same situation to do so, as well as negating one of the reasons for being in this life. Also if you procrastinate now, you will procrastinate later, and there will not be very much to motivate you to change in the next life.

[JudoMinja]

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion

I apologize for making this second account. I was unaware it was against the rules and probably should have known it was anyways. I meant no harm by it. It was essentially for the purpose of changing my username and I planned on then sticking with this account. Can I just delete the other one?

...As far as this thread, I'm getting a lot out of it. Thanks everybody. I think it's necessary that I mention that I have no plans on breaking my covenants by either premeditated sin or sins of omission. I'm just trying to understand a doctrine that hasn't quite sat right with me lately. I apologize for playing devil's advocate in my style of asking. I just thought it might illicit a more direct answer. I always have questions about the gospel because I'm always thinking about it, but I'm the only member of my family and I'm fairly new in my ward so I don't have a ton of people to direct all of my questions to.

Sorry for any confusion.

From everyone's comments and from the scriptures I have read since I made this thread, I believe God will judge everyone's situation individually, but generally speaking, we have to endure to end to inherit eternal life (2 Ne 9:24, 3 Ne 27:17, Mosiah 2:38-39, and Mosiah 15:26). I'd really like to understand why though. I believe the answer is stated in Alma 34:32-34, but I'm not completely understanding.

I think the key to understanding this isn't in the "why" we have to endure, but in what enduring really means. Mormonmusic mentioned that he is at a point in his life where it is more difficult for him to go "full tilt" in the gospel, and I think many would say he is not "enduring" if he is not giving it his all- but I think these people would be mistaken. I do not think that is what it means to "endure to the end".

Think of a long-distance, cross country race. Do the runners always run at the same pace throughout the entirety of the race? No. Their pace changes and flows with the terrain. Going uphill takes more work, so the pace is slower. Downhill is easy, but run too fast and you'll trip and fall, so the pace is fast but not too fast. When you have a nice open stretch, that is when you can really give it your all- but still don't run too fast or you won't have enough energy to handle the coming hills.

The idea is to pace yourself. Cross-country isn't about running as fast as you can. It's about running for as long as you can, and you have to know your body and your abilities well enough to set the pace so that you can make it to the end.

Now, not only do we need to pace ourselves, but we also need to build ourselves up and get stronger so that we can handle more as we travel further in life. This part is like weight training. The idea is to lift as much as you can for a few repetitions and then rest. Then repeat until you feel like you cannot lift any more. Your muscles then need a day to recover and "rebuild" before you lift again. This process slowly makes you stronger, and you will find yourself able to lift or bear heavier and heavier loads as the weeks and months go by.

What happens if we stop completely? We get cramps, winded, lose what we've worked so hard to accomplish. When we stop we are not enduring. But when we are having a hard time- going up a hill or just feeling ill- slowing our pace is an important part of enduring.

Enduring means we keep on trying, we keep on trudging forward even when things are hard, and we don't give up. We hold fast to "the iron rod" and our testimonies when times are troubling or difficult so that we do not lose our progress and can get back in the game when our path becomes a little smoother. We cannot always give it our "all", and that is okay. As long as we aren't giving up and are always striving to better ourselves.

[Windseeker]

Faith and Repentance 3 | Mormon Beliefs

Repentance Here and Hereafter-Alma, a Nephite prophet, described the period of earthly existence as a probationary state, granted unto man for repentance; yet we learn from the scriptures that repentance may be obtained, under certain conditions, beyond the veil of mortality. Between the times of His death and resurrection, Christ “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah”; these the Son visited, and unto them He preached the Gospel, “that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.”

No soul is justified in postponing his efforts to repent because of this assurance of longsuffering and mercy. We know not fully on what terms repentance will be obtainable in the hereafter; but to suppose that the soul who has wilfully rejected the opportunity of repentance in this life will find it easy to repent there is contrary to reason. To procrastinate the day of repentance is to deliberately place ourselves in the power of the adversary. Thus Amulek taught and admonished the multitude of old: “For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; * * * therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; * * * Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his.”

Originally Posted by estradling75

ihaveaquestion... you should be aware that having two accounts is against the rules here and can get both account banned.

Just curious,... how do you know there is a second account?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion

I apologize for making this second account. I was unaware it was against the rules and probably should have known it was anyways. I meant no harm by it. It was essentially for the purpose of changing my username and I planned on then sticking with this account. Can I just delete the other one?

...As far as this thread, I'm getting a lot out of it. Thanks everybody. I think it's necessary that I mention that I have no plans on breaking my covenants by either premeditated sin or sins of omission. I'm just trying to understand a doctrine that hasn't quite sat right with me lately. I apologize for playing devil's advocate in my style of asking. I just thought it might illicit a more direct answer. I always have questions about the gospel because I'm always thinking about it, but I'm the only member of my family and I'm fairly new in my ward so I don't have a ton of people to direct all of my questions to.

Sorry for any confusion.

From everyone's comments and from the scriptures I have read since I made this thread, I believe God will judge everyone's situation individually, but generally speaking, we have to endure to end to inherit eternal life (2 Ne 9:24, 3 Ne 27:17, Mosiah 2:38-39, and Mosiah 15:26). I'd really like to understand why though. I believe the answer is stated in Alma 34:32-34, but I'm not completely understanding.

I think JudoMinja said it best but just to add my two cents. ...

Looking at Alma 34:32-34, you may be wrestling with the word labor and that there will come a day when there is no labor. I think sometimes, not sure if this is with you, people misinterpret that form of the word labor to mean that one won't do any kind of work after this life. What it means, in my opinion, is a reference to the same reason Christ says come unto my rest. As in Matthew 11:28-29. This labor is the struggle that our spirits face in this world. This is part of the test we face. When we die, we give up this testing situation. That is why this is the time to labor against our bodies, against temptation, against the corruption of this world. We won't and don't want to have to face that for the rest of our existence. If we take on Christ's yoke, the struggle is easier. I think people get weary when they try to take on the world's yoke at the same time they are trying to live righteously. If one takes on Christ' yoke, truly, then endurance is easier.

If we want to change the nature of our soul, our spirits, this is the time to work that out. Otherwise, how we are is how we are, as there won't be a struggle, i.e. - night of darkness wherein no labor can be performed, after we die.

I kind of think of a tough soldier going through boot camp and says to his leaders, 'I will never leave behind a fellow soldier, I will always follow orders' while he is in boot camp but the real test is the battle field. If the soldier who claims he will do well while in the battle field does not follow orders and does not give of himself for his fellow soldiers while in the middle of the battle, he is not going to be able to go back after the battle and say that he would.

This life is a chance to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. We all talked the talk, by keeping our first estate, we all said we would endure to the end already. Going back afterward to, in essence, say the same thing we did before we came here, which is "I will follow and obey and endure to the end" is not going to prove anything if we failed to do it while we had the chance. Just to say "I will obey from now on" is not any further than where we were before coming here. This is the time to advance beyond just saying it. This is a time for labor.