didnt Jesus and Paul favor not having families

[soulfire]

do you interpret these passages differently than i do? because to me its clear jesus and paul promote the idea of not having families

Matthew 19:10-12
"His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

and in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul teaches that it's better for those in the church to not marry, unless being single would cause you to fornicate outside of marriage:
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.........For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn........But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.......He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife........The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.......So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better......"


another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

[Justice]

It's not clear in the Bible exactly why Paul was unmarried. But, having been a leader of some kind in the Jewish community before his coversion to Christianity, it's almost certain he was married. The most logical explanation is that his wife died. In that sense, it sheds a different light on his words. He may be speaking of being re-married. He says "unmarried and widows." to think "unmarried" means men whose wives passed away when used next to widows makes sense.

As far as Christ's remarks, I'm not certain what a eunich was at Christ's time. Find that, and I bet you have your answer.

[Spartan117]

Originally Posted by soulfire

another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

James E. Talmage:
"In the resurrection there will be no marrying nor giving in marriage; for all questions of marital status must be settled before that time, under the authority of the Holy Priesthood, which holds the power to seal in marriage for both time and eternity."

[soulfire]

Originally Posted by Justice

It's not clear in the Bible exactly why Paul was unmarried. But, having been a leader of some kind in the Jewish community before his coversion to Christianity, it's almost certain he was married. The most logical explanation is that his wife died. In that sense, it sheds a different light on his words. He may be speaking of being re-married. He says "unmarried and widows." to think "unmarried" means men whose wives passed away when used next to widows makes sense.

As far as Christ's remarks, I'm not certain what a eunich was at Christ's time. Find that, and I bet you have your answer.

Paul goes on about it for pretty much a whole chapter (and i think another time in some other book) in great detail - i think it speaks for itself. saying it is only about widows takes it out of context. he even specifies about virgins 5 times and also says "He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife". so he is very clear why he is celibate and supports it for others.

and eunuch just refers to those who dont or cant have kids

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by soulfire

Paul goes on about it for pretty much a whole chapter (and i think another time in some other book) in great detail - i think it speaks for itself. saying it is only about widows takes it out of context. he even specifies about virgins 5 times and also says "He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife". so he is very clear why he is celibate and supports it for others.

and eunuch just refers to those who dont or cant have kids

Speaking of taking things out of context:

When you quote Christ, you don't point out that the conversation that takes place is specifically about divorce and how he doesn't like men 'putting away their wives'.

The apostles said this was a hard thing and it would be better not to get married if that were the case, so the saviour shrugged and basically said: "Yeah? Not getting a divorce is hard. You're right. It would be easier not to be married. Some men have their genitals removed by accident. Some men have their genitals removed by the evils of other men and some by the will of God."

I replaced Eunuch with the more explicit version specifically so you can understand what he's saying.

[james12]

Originally Posted by soulfire

do you interpret these passages differently than i do? because to me its clear Jesus and paul promote the idea of not having families

Matthew 19:10-12
"His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Christ does not promote the idea of not having families. Far from it. He actually promotes the idea of a truly lasting marriage. A union between husband and wife so complete that they are in essence one flesh.

Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matt 19:4-6)

Now this simple and clear instructions man will corrupt. He will take it and commit adultery. He will separate, damage and destroy. Christ must then address this issue when the disciples (who seem amazed at the strict doctrine) ask,

Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. (Matt 19:7-9)

Christ then points out the exceptions to this strict command. Note, they are not the rule they are simply the exceptions to this strict rule he has already laid out. These exceptions have to do with those who never marry or remain single for various reasons (your quote from Matt 19:12). However he then concludes this teaching reminding his listeners of the original command to be one by saying, "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it" (Matt 19:12). He that is able to live this high law of marriage let him live it. Such is the importance of marriage, and by extension children within that marriage. Verse 12 is clearly the exceptions to the teaching. Do not make an exception a rule.

[soulfire]

i concede my example from Jesus is weak, but the chapter written by paul is too detailed and clear. i dont see how it can be denied

[Dravin]

C. Wilfred Griggs: "Paul and Marriage"

[Blackmarch]

Originally Posted by soulfire

do you interpret these passages differently than i do? because to me its clear jesus and paul promote the idea of not having families

Matthew 19:10-12
"His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

and in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul teaches that it's better for those in the church to not marry, unless being single would cause you to fornicate outside of marriage:
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.........For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn........But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.......He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife........The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.......So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better......"


another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

Paul might have thaught it better to not marry again. A probelm here are that Christ and Paul are talking about two seperate things. A problem with a lot of the letters in the new testament is that they are answers to questions which are not recorded with them so we lose a lot of context... and is why a lot of times the subject often changes drasticly from verse to verse in a couple instances. How can we be sure he was talking to everyone and not to certain individuals (like those in certain offices of the clergy?).

You also have to recognise tat there are also parts where paul injects his own reasoning and not necessarily revelation (He usually does a decent job of giving notice about it tho)

Christ talks about what happens in heaven. By the time an individual gets to heaven if they are unmarried they will remain unmarried, and vice versa, if they are married they will remain married. And in this case heaven can = celestial kingdom, if a person gets theere unmarried he will remain unmarried, or vice versa.

[Madriglace]

At some point ... we don't know how or when, people who, through no fault of their own, were not married during their life but have lived in every way to be worthy of this will be taken care of. They will not be denied the blessings. Of this I have absolute faith. If my Savior loved me enough to die for me He will most certainly make sure all is made right so I can progress.