Coming unto Christ

[skalenfehl]

Perfect! Yes, he commanded them to search Isaiah. Isaiah is such a key prophet since the days of Adam, so much so that Nephi, after sharing with us his journey, expounded on Isaiah and even taught his people and us, how to understand Isaiah. He is such a key prophet that Jesust Christ, the Son of God commanded them to search Isaiah. Isaiah truly testified of Jesus Christ's coming, His ministry, His purpose and his Second Coming, along with the critical importance of the "marvelous work and a wonder" to usher in the gathering of Israel.

The first thing Christ told the Nephites was to go home and pray unto the Father for an understanding of His words because they were weak. Did he insult them? No. He was telling them that they still hadn't accepted His gifts: the scriptures. The scriptures are accounts and witnesses of Jesus Christ.

You are on the right path. But like I said in my previous post, knowing isn't necessarily believing, even if you see with your own eyes. Wicked men walked with Christ and they still turned away. Jesus Christ wants you not only to believe Him but also to follow Him. Without conviction, which begins with a trial of your faith, you will never set foot on His path.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by cryophil

Yes, it's bad. It leads to results which may have no basis in fact. If science operated this way, it would never have produced the abundance of technology. Likewise, if I use confirmation bias to learn truth of morality and God, it will not lead to an abundance of blessings.

But your chart includes evaluation. Yet you leave it out. That's bad methodology.

It's simply not the way you say it is.


HiJolly

[Eowyn]

How do you verify the truthfulness or goodness of anything without taking the word of those who know about it and have proven it for themselves, and ultimately trying it out yourself?

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by Eowyn

How do you verify the truthfulness or goodness of anything without taking the word of those who know about it and have proven it for themselves, and ultimately trying it out yourself?

As I interpret what cryophil has said, he/she has tried them out. And got mixed/confusing/negative results.

HiJolly

[cryophil]

Originally Posted by HiJolly

But your chart includes evaluation. Yet you leave it out. That's bad methodology.
It's simply not the way you say it is.

I left out evaluation? When/where?

Originally Posted by Eowyn

How do you verify the truthfulness or goodness of anything without taking the word of those who know about it and have proven it for themselves, and ultimately trying it out yourself?

That's not the issue. The issue is if you believe with faith unwavering, without skepticism, then you're prone to confirmation bias.

The other issue is, what is the indicator that yields evidence that the Book of Mormon/LDS church is true? We're told through the promptings of the Holy Ghost. Then I asked what is that? How will I know?

This was in the other thread I started...

[Eowyn]

If I give you my reasons for knowing, though, you call it confirmation bias. Nevertheless, here are my best answers:

Moroni 7:16
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Doctrine and Covenants 6:23
23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?

Doctrine and Covenants 9:9
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

Matthew 7: 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

edited to add the most important to me:

Alma 32:27
27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

[Eowyn]

For what it's worth, I felt a "burning in my bosom" and the confirmation of the truth of these scriptures, even as I posted them. My faith in the words has waxed and waned, but I do feel of their truth and I am thankful for that. The last one, especially. I've had to work with that desire only, as in the last one I posted, and I know that with time and patience and prayer, that desire has worked in me to increase my faith. I don't know if you're looking for hard and fast evidence, or what, but I value the aspects of my testimony that I've had to work harder for more, I think.

[skalenfehl]

I will add my witness to Eowyn's. When your heart is right and the Lord sees fit to send you that confirming witness, you will feel that unmistakable burning in the bosom. I have felt it in degrees in my life. Sometimes, it's just a tangible "burning" that envelopes my being, but it has also been a tangible fire that seems to consume the entire room for a period of time. You will know it when you receive it. Aside from this it feels like an overwhelming sensation of love, as if you are literally embraced by the Savior. Just know that until then, this is the trial of your faith and conversion, not just convincing. Most anyone can be convinced. There is a difference.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by cryophil

I left out evaluation? When/where?

right here:

Originally Posted by cryophil
Yes, it's bad. It leads to results which may have no basis in fact. If science operated this way, it would never have produced the abundance of technology. Likewise, if I use confirmation bias to learn truth of morality and God, it will not lead to an abundance of blessings.

Originally Posted by cryophil

That's not the issue. The issue is if you believe with faith unwavering, without skepticism, then you're prone to confirmation bias.

I believed that way before my mind matured. Now, I never think/believe that way. I have a love/hate relationship with doubt.

HJ

[cryophil]

If only it were about having a witness where you feel burning in your chest, elation, heart is right, peace and comfort and...

Here's a witness from Muslim women, testifying of Allah.
Women Embracing Islam: Gender And Conversion in the West - Karin Van Nieuwkerk - Google Books
“Many women described a feeling of euphoria after they committed to following Allah . . . . One woman described a feeling of peace; she said: ‘It is like you are born again and you can start all over again, free from sin.’”

Another:
How can you be sure of what happens after death if.... (beliefs, religion) - Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism, God, Universe, Science, Spirituality, Faith, Evidence - Page 7 - City-Data Forum
" While on my journey, I was asking God what the truth was. I mean I was angry and I truely wanted to know. After a few weeks, I stumbled onto a web site that talked about the very things I was curious about. It answered my questions in a way that I had not heard of before. I read everything on the web site and I even tried the experiment of asking God for His love, His Divine Love. After about 6 weeks, I felt a burning in my chest and a sensation that was unlike anything I had ever felt. It was pure happiness and peace. I knew then that God had sent His love to me." (post by Reverend1111)

The above is about New Age.

And a surprising one:
"As I sat and gazed upon the surrounding hills gently sloping to an inland sea, a feeling of peace came over me. It soon grew to a blissful stillness that silenced my thoughts. In an instant, the sense of being a separate self—an “I” or a “me”—vanished. . . . The experience lasted just a few moments..."
(Atheist Sam Harris)
On Faith Panelists Blog: Selfless Consciousness Without Faith - Sam Harris

So which God, which gospel, which witness is correct?