Leadership and Calling Assignments question by new member

[earth2steph]

I'm a fairly new member, but have been reading the Bible and other religious works for a long time in my walk with Heavenly Father, so I'd really like some brutally honest opinions about this situation.

My main question is this: Is it common in Utah/ America for Bishops or a Counselor to the Bishop, to override what you know from Heavenly Father is best for your family and push or manipulate you into a calling?

I was baptized here in Australia in late 2011 and in about Feb/March was told by a Counselor of our Bishop that they would soon have a "Calling" for me. I am a 40 yr old stay at home mom with two children under the age of three and the youngest is still breastfeeding. So, a few weeks later, we go to the office and he tells me that he wants me to be a teacher in primary. I told him that my youngest is still breastfeeding, so I didn't think I could fulfill that calling. He said he'd get back to me. He called me later in the week and said that my husband could just fill in if I had to step out to feed the baby.
So we agreed, but after about 2 weeks of trying to get a lesson together during the day/evenings and being really tired from bf-ing, a persistent shoulder injury, etc. I asked to be removed from the calling. I love my husband but he has very little religious training/education and couldn't fill in realistically. (He was raised Catholic and rebelled against it the entire time) My kids wanted more of me than they were getting and I was getting stressed. The Bishop said that he would have me removed as requested. But the next week the Counselor comes back and asks me to aid in the nursery and that I wouldn't have to plan lessons -just help. So, I agreed, but turns out that was not true and I was very embarrassed when my "turn" came around to teach a lesson that I had not ever been told to prepare. In the weeks that followed, my children and husband and I were ill in turns, over and over for about 4 weeks. We were so blessed to have the Missionaries visit us during that time. Finally, I asked the Bishop to release me, that obviously I could not fulfill my calling. He did so about 2 weeks later.
To make matters worse, I'm one of maybe 2-3 stay-at-home moms in our ward. All the other women work and have their kids in Daycare -the dominant way of life in Australia. My husband and I were living most of the Word of Wisdom already by our own choice before we ever joined the LDS church. We were so thrilled to read the Proclamation on the Family because it matched our way of life completely. We did a huge temple work baptismsession and were blessed and thrilled to do it on our temporary recommend. And I'm an American in Australia, so a bit of Catholic/ social democratic culture clash. Cops here aren't used to being questioned either and the Counselor is a cop here. (FYI: cops here are armed but not the citizens, so ...).

When I look at the women of our ward I can see their health is compromised, they are pushed to their limits, they are disconnected from their spouses and eager to get away from their children. This is an unacceptable way of life to me. I can't help but feel that, as an American, I am being bullied into knowing my "place" because I am a vocal, confident woman who knows her own value and married to a terrific, gentle bloke who treats my like the sun shines through me. I do not cower in the face of the Priesthood, but share in it with my husband. I feel I am just as accountable as he is to Heavenly Father for the way our children are raised and the quality of relationships and education in our home. Anyway, sorry so lengthy. Just have had illness after illness since this whole situation began. Beginning to wonder if this issue weighing on my mind is the root cause of our continued illnesses. I've never been so sick, so often, in my life. Currently have liquid guts, a chesty cough and finally my 'aunt' is visiting after 79 days without. Frustrated and need some reassurance.

[applepansy]

No its not common for Bishop's or their Counselors to manipulate anyone into a calling. They will ask and they might ask repeatedly, they might even try to find ways to help so you can accept the calling. Sometimes we feel manipulated or we feel guilty which then makes us feel manipulated. And sometimes there is a bishop or counselor who does manipulate but they are rare (at least in my experience).

I've turned down callings when my family or my health circumstances didn't allow me to accept. I've also accepted callings when my family or my health circumstances didn't allow it. In both circumstances I've felt guilty that I couldn't do it all.

You and your husband need to decide what is best for you family. The Church is here for families, its most definitely not families are here for the church. That's just backwards.

Having said all that I know for a fact that if we do accept a calling, hang in there and do the best we can we WILL be blessed. Even if our leader is wrong, if we are obedient we will be blessed and whatever is wrong will fall on their shoulders not ours.

Make this issue a matter of fasting and prayer. Then decide what to do. If its right you'll know by the sweet peaceful feeling which is confirmation from the Holy Ghost.

I wish you all the best. In our world today its very hard to live a life which seems contrary to what most people are doing. Good Luck and Best wishes.

[Yehshen]

I'm sorry you've been so sick! It's sometimes hard for me (as a single woman) to balance the needs in my life, and it must be triply hard with 2 kids under 3 with 1 breastfeeding. I do have some feedback for you (woman to woman)....but at the same time I'm not a parent and never worked in Sunday School and/or nursery, so i'm going to hang back and let more informed folks speak first.

[HiJolly]

There is no doubt that some leaders in the Church could use a lot more sensitivity in the way they extend callings to the membership, rather than placing their priorities on getting the vacancies filled ASAP.

I've been in that exact position myself. I think your efforts to balance family with Church are well intentioned, and I hope your bishopbric will agree. But it's not terribly likely, in my experience. They need you to serve.

I agree with your feelings but you've got to know that many brethren who are in the trenches will have a hard time feeling any sympathy for you. It's just that their needs are being frustrated by your needs, so you've got to expect and understand that they are only human.

I wrote this a while back, and think it may pertain to your situation:

The weakness and limitations of the membership of the Church requires that administrative leaders generally come from the men and women that the body of the Church can respect and look up to, not from the most spiritually in tune or Godly Saints. Rarely, we get both types of leader in one individual. The rest of the time, pragmatism wins, by the will of the Lord.

HiJolly

[Anddenex]

Originally Posted by earth2steph

My main question is this: Is it common in Utah/ America for Bishops or a Counselor to the Bishop, to override what you know from Heavenly Father is best for your family and push or manipulate you into a calling?

No. Does it happen, yes, however the Bishopric isn't always in the easiest of positions. They have callings they need to fill. They have Presidents and Group Leaders of Quorums constantly saying, "We need a calling filled." If nobody is in that calling, then typically one of the leaders will step in, taking more time from their families, and then they can get anxious. This, at times, will trickle down, and as Applepansy said,

"They will ask and they might ask repeatedly, they might even try to find ways to help so you can accept the calling. Sometimes we feel manipulated or we feel guilty which then makes us feel manipulated."

The nice thing the Lord knows our capabilities. He knows when we are running faster than we have strength and need slow down. He also knows when we are being slothful.

When I served as the Elder's Quorum President, one particular brother had major back problems. When I would discuss with him regarding his service he would say, "President Exon, my back doesn't allow me at times to fulfill my callings."

I simply responded, "Brother the Lord knows our hearts and our true capabilities. If your back is hurting sufficient enough that walking or other activities is too strenuous, the Lord knows this, and you don't need to feel guilty. The Lord also knows, if we are using certain circumstances as an excuse to not fulfill our callings. Either way the Lord knows. It's your choice and decision to make."

Overall, you know your circumstances, the Lord knows your circumstances. In the end, we won't be able to pull a fast one on Him, and we are in good hands with Him.

Applepansy also provided good counsel,

"Make this issue a matter of fasting and prayer. Then decide what to do. If its right you'll know by the sweet peaceful feeling which is confirmation from the Holy Ghost."

Best wishes!

[MarginOfError]

A bishop shouldn't ever "override" the impression you have felt for your family. He may ask you to reconsider, or to ask the Lord again. But he shouldn't outright tell you you're wrong. If he does--even if he's right--he's showing poor leadership.

I was able to work with a bishop and seven different counselors in the course of three years. Some of the counselors were great, and some of them were very much the opposite. The ones I appreciated the most were the ones that listened to what others had to say. One of the differences between the good ones and the not-so-good was the difference between persuasion and manipulation. The good ones could influence a person to believe that they could and wanted to fill a person. The not-so-good ones would just say things like "the Lord wants you to serve in this position. You need to have faith in him."

Keep the dialog open about what you are feeling is in the best interests of your family. If you continue to have the same impressions, hold true to them. At the same time, seriously consider the callings placed before and try to imagine a way you can do it. It might involve a novel approach to the responsibility, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Above all, do what feels right. That will rarely lead you astray.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by earth2steph

I'm a fairly new member, but have been reading the Bible and other religious works for a long time in my walk with Heavenly Father, so I'd really like some brutally honest opinions about this situation.

My main question is this: Is it common in Utah/ America for Bishops or a Counselor to the Bishop, to override what you know from Heavenly Father is best for your family and push or manipulate you into a calling?

I was baptized here in Australia in late 2011 and in about Feb/March was told by a Counselor of our Bishop that they would soon have a "Calling" for me. I am a 40 yr old stay at home mom with two children under the age of three and the youngest is still breastfeeding. So, a few weeks later, we go to the office and he tells me that he wants me to be a teacher in primary. I told him that my youngest is still breastfeeding, so I didn't think I could fulfill that calling. He said he'd get back to me. He called me later in the week and said that my husband could just fill in if I had to step out to feed the baby.
So we agreed, but after about 2 weeks of trying to get a lesson together during the day/evenings and being really tired from bf-ing, a persistent shoulder injury, etc. I asked to be removed from the calling. I love my husband but he has very little religious training/education and couldn't fill in realistically. (He was raised Catholic and rebelled against it the entire time) My kids wanted more of me than they were getting and I was getting stressed. The Bishop said that he would have me removed as requested. But the next week the Counselor comes back and asks me to aid in the nursery and that I wouldn't have to plan lessons -just help. So, I agreed, but turns out that was not true and I was very embarrassed when my "turn" came around to teach a lesson that I had not ever been told to prepare. In the weeks that followed, my children and husband and I were ill in turns, over and over for about 4 weeks. We were so blessed to have the Missionaries visit us during that time. Finally, I asked the Bishop to release me, that obviously I could not fulfill my calling. He did so about 2 weeks later.
To make matters worse, I'm one of maybe 2-3 stay-at-home moms in our ward. All the other women work and have their kids in Daycare -the dominant way of life in Australia. My husband and I were living most of the Word of Wisdom already by our own choice before we ever joined the LDS church. We were so thrilled to read the Proclamation on the Family because it matched our way of life completely. We did a huge temple work baptismsession and were blessed and thrilled to do it on our temporary recommend. And I'm an American in Australia, so a bit of Catholic/ social democratic culture clash. Cops here aren't used to being questioned either and the Counselor is a cop here. (FYI: cops here are armed but not the citizens, so ...).

When I look at the women of our ward I can see their health is compromised, they are pushed to their limits, they are disconnected from their spouses and eager to get away from their children. This is an unacceptable way of life to me. I can't help but feel that, as an American, I am being bullied into knowing my "place" because I am a vocal, confident woman who knows her own value and married to a terrific, gentle bloke who treats my like the sun shines through me. I do not cower in the face of the Priesthood, but share in it with my husband. I feel I am just as accountable as he is to Heavenly Father for the way our children are raised and the quality of relationships and education in our home. Anyway, sorry so lengthy. Just have had illness after illness since this whole situation began. Beginning to wonder if this issue weighing on my mind is the root cause of our continued illnesses. I've never been so sick, so often, in my life. Currently have liquid guts, a chesty cough and finally my 'aunt' is visiting after 79 days without. Frustrated and need some reassurance.

Welcome to Zion Sister Earth2steph:
I would like to introduce you to some new thoughts about callings. The L-rd does not expect his servants (leaders and those serving in callings) in Zion to be “professionals”. Jesus chose his apostles, not from the most “qualified” professional leaders and organizers of his day – he chose fishermen and other common laborers.

I think you are way over thinking callings – but do not feel bad – almost everybody does. Let me give an example – Suppose one of you children one day asked, “Mommy, Why should I choose the Right? Would you say, “Little child, I am a stay-at-home mom and I am still breast feeding my youngest – so I do not think I can properly answer your question – so please ask someone else.”

I have learned that accepting a calling is a great help in my personal life – even when I am not at church as well as being a blessing where I can be of service. The bishop is not trying to burden you with a calling – he lovingly is trying to help you. I use to think that the L-rd has callings in his church to utilize talents in the best manner possible. Well then along came some callings that had nothing to do with my talents. Perhaps we receive callings so we will develop talents. Again experience has taught me that such is not really the reason. After much thought on this subject – I think I know why in the Church of Jesus Christ his saints are given callings. The reason is simple – if we were not given callings we would not do very much service. In other words, if we were not given calling we would not do stuff.

As a mother with children – you should not have to prepare a lesson for primary or nursery children. You should be able to talk to children with your eyes shut or doing 10 different other things – you do this as a mother every day. The great thing about the L-rd is that he intends that you stretch yourself in what you think you can do, especially in your service to others. Do not worry so much about reading every line in a manual to get ever thought in a lesson. Serve and teach from your heart, be happy and of good cheer and love the opportunity to do some little service. Someday one of your little one’s may serve as a missionary or may play a role in changing a person, a family, a city, a nation or even the world.

I am a High Priest and have served a mission, been married in the temple, as a scientist and engineer I have sat in meetings that involved hundreds of millions of dollars – and if I could pick my calling – I would teach Primary. Of all the professors and teachers I have had (other than my family) none have had a more profound effect on me than a certain primary teacher. I do not remember a single lesson – not one. But I remember well her tears when I acted up in primary – I remember her taking a special interest in me because I was not well behaved. I remember she loved me because she was my teacher. We became friends and she wrote me on my mission – and for years, until she died, we traded Christmas cards. She told me once that I was so badly behaved in her class that more than once she had gone to the bishop to ask for a release – but he would not do it. So she finely decided to make the best of it -- And she did. She made a big difference.

The Traveler

[earth2steph]

HiJolly,
Your reply fits my situation even more than you perhaps know. I am getting an icy reception at quilting night because some of the young women and mums have filled the spots left vacant by me. I definitely felt the resentment and it doesnt help that in our ward, nearly all the young women are related by blood. But, they are younger than me by about 20 years, so they have a bit more energy too. I can see that they are under strain, but I can also see that their Priesthood holders put them under that strain and that they let themselves be pushed beyond what is healthy or fulfilling. Our Bishop told me that alot of women come to him because of Priesthood holders abusing their authority.

I strongly feel that I shouldn't have to make my children sacrifice their time with me, so that I can spend time with other people's children, at least not at their present ages (1 & 3). To me that is hypocrisy and smacks of the 'Martyr Mom' syndrome of the Abominable church. Someone in our church taught that the only things we take with us to the Celestial Kingdom are our memories and our relationships. I am the guardian of those for my kids and my husband.
I'm not a mom who believes I should multi-task and take uppers/diet pills, excess chocloate, etc to push myself to have everything perfect all the time, because the time involved, means I'm missing out on teaching, relationship, cuddle and focused attention time with my children. Never mind the damage to one's health. I worked so hard to lay the foundation for having children at all this late in life and I'm not giving that precious time up for blessings of any kind. My time with them IS my blessing. I can see alot of young mums don't feel this way though (most of them inour ward have to work, so they don't get to enjoy their children).
Also, in the years I was unable to have children, I did heaps of research and some college courses on psychology and healthy child development, as well as during my pregnancies. I have come to understand that when we do what is for our highest and best, we are also helping others to do the same. Unfortunately, here in Oz, the culture, the schools and relationship norms are against our way of life -some of this has entered the church here, sadly. It breaks my heart to see children so used to being denied attention that they stare blankly and exhibit little active intelligence. They become very angry, resentful, disrespectful teens. I'm not going to let that happen to my children. In our nursery, our son is like a beautiful little fireball of creativity and fun playfulness compared to the blank, numb aspects of his peers.

Do we imagine that a child doesn't feel they are a burden or that they don't know they are the last priority when we put their needs aside for lifestyle or vanity or the recognition and appreciation of others for even ward service? They know -they just don't know what it is called. I worked for a Fortune 100 financial company for 9 years before I met my husband. No resume, no work has been more satisfying and fulfilling than raising my children at home according to my own standards. I am very grateful that my husband led us into this church and that he supports whatever makes me happy, because all he has to do is earn a living, take out the trash, mow the lawn and spend play time with our kids. I manage the finances, appointments, children's education and the housekeeping. My son loves baking bread with me and both my children love books almost more than toys already. I could go on, but I think you get the point. I guess I'm just not willing to serve outside my home right now and I resent the intrusion and manipulation by leadership. To me, it conveys that a woman's work in the home is not valued or respected, that our children's needs can be sacrificed for someone else's greater good. How is it the greater good if it's not good for me? Am I somewhere outside that? Am I beneath that? This again, is the doctrine of the Abominable church creeping into our lives and it should seen for what it is and be met with fierce resistance. Well, I've said enough for now. I thank everyone who replied because it gives me an idea of what to expect and I'll definitely talk to potential Bishops about my family's needs before buying a house in any particular ward.

[Praetorian_Brow]

The church needs positions filled and 99% of the people are not going to fill those positions unless there is an incentive. In this case, the incentive is either a desire to accomodate, but in most cases it is a fear of social repurcussions of denying an altered concept of divine right.

Practically speaking, the church is run like a business with the majority of leaders retiring from a business setting. It is only natural to fill all positions with what is available, with the caveat being suitability. Most people are rotated through their callings, based on attendance, reliability and availability. It is not surprising when fresh faces are immeditely beset by a calling to not only give them a purpose in order to prevent discouragement at the onset of cultural shock and the sense of abandonment when the missionaries no longer spend all their time on you and cushion you from the inevitable social peckings. Another purpose is to relieve the continuing strain on the calling veterans.

The idea that one is denying God on refusal of a calling is simply preposterous and zealous. We also can't forget that the people who do the calling are most likely learning on the job as well.

Yes, there are spiritual reasons for all callings and they do provide a challenging learning curve that is beneficial step for building a better person and community. However, I do not believe in accepting callings if the pressure to accept for whatever reason exceeds that of your willigness to accept the calling.

Family first, even before your 20th meeting of the week to prepare for the latest round of jello contests.

[james12]

I was at one time in the bishopric and responsible to call teachers to primary. To have someone fulfill this calling was the most difficult of any in the ward. I called couples without children, they would not show up. I called individuals or couples with families they would asked to be released. Some felt they needed to be with the Elders. Some would simply refuse. On the other end, I would then get complaints from mothers who had to be with their children in the nursery because there was only one teacher. Truly there were few who were willing to accept these callings.

Now I ask, are primary callings really that difficult? I understand the the family is the most important organization in the church but how much time does the position really require? Depending on your knowledge of the gospel it may take anywhere from a half hour to a couple of hours to prepare a lesson for the primary (If you are spending longer preparing I believe it is not necessary, if you do so it is likely more about being insecure then ready). It then requires two hours during the block to be with the kids. So at most I would expect about three or four hours a week two of these being at church. If you team teach or have a couple of teachers in nursery it is less.

How could the bishopric be so terrible! They must not have been inspired by the Lord. They don't understand my needs. I belong in the Elders quorum presidency. I belong in relief society. I only like to teach the young women. A calling that takes three hours is too demanding on me and my families time....

I wish we would take to heart Jacob's words:

"...having first obtained mine errand from the Lord." Go and find out if the Lord would have you serve in the calling. Forget your emotions, forget your perceived needs. Simply ask the Lord in humility what He would have you do. Members have the Holy Ghost, go use it. If you have not found out who has called you then you need to do so.

"...having been consecrated priests and teachers of this people by the hand of Nephi." Realize that the Lord will magnify you in the call. You will be set apart and consecrated. Trust in the promise, "Whom the Lord calls the Lord qualifies".

"...taking upon us the responsibility." Once you know where your call comes from and realize the support you will receive then take responsibility. Own your call. Be diligent and magnify the position.

The Lord needs people who have discovered from whom their call is coming, the support they will receive, and who are willing to serve.