Other religions

[Heber13]

Anddenex makes a pretty good point...there are other chapters we cannot see or know about everyone's journey. We do know, if we are here on this earth we kept our first estate. But this 2nd Estate is a brief moment and not the only part of our eternal journey.

Pres Uchtdorf mentioned in the July 2012 ensign that we should realize we are "in the middle". I think he was teaching us not to worry too much about the timing of things, or what we see now. Where we are now is OK.

Christ also taught the parable of the laborers of the vineyard. We may think we want equal labor and equal pay from our point of view, but the Lord's ways are higher than our ways, and the person hired at the end of the day may get the same pay, and it is fair because we are all given what we need, not comparing ourselves to others' situations.

I have heard some people believe severely handicapped people or small children don't need ordinances in this life to be saved. Circumstances are different.

Perhaps the Russian leader also played his part in the vineyard. The Lord uses tame and wild olive branches to save and strengthen the trees. Perhaps CS Lewis didn't need to be mormon, or Mother Teresa, or a bunch of other noble people, including my neighbors.

I am open to the idea that others may be following God's plan for them, with or without LDS ordinances. They have their own relationship to God.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord the way we are taught, but humbly acknowledging we don't know what is needed for others. The Lord will determine that, and I will be open to learn from others, even as I share my example of following Christ's teachings to others.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Heber13

Hello all.

It seems to me that we regularly recognize the good in other religions. Any good that brings people closer to God has truth in it, but we claim as Mormons more revealed truth, or greater collection of truth. The quotes are often about truth is found in many sources, but bring all that to the Mormon church and we will add unto it.

This is a comforting response to those who believe the Church is the "one true" church. It can be a bit offensive to others, obviously.

But I really want to hear from this group why we would think God would work and offer salvation for such a small group of His children? Temple work for the dead is a nice thought, but it doesn't make sense to me when this mortal life is so important in our test.

If I think this church is one way to God, but not the only way, am I on dangerous ground?

I have so many friends outside the church that are such wonderful good people, I'm not sure they NEED to convert. They are pretty dang good people now.

What do you all think about other religions being just as good as the Mormon church, as long as they help people develop Christ-like qualities?

There is a very important relationship between the "True and living G-d" and the "True and living Church." It is as important to belong to the "True and Living Church" as it is to worship the "True and Living G-d".

The relationship of the true and living church to the true and living G-d is called the "Kingdom of G-d". Many churches try to define the kingdom of G-d based on doctrines as derived from interpretation of scripture. G-d has, during the course of human history provided much more than doctrine. Within the Kingdom of G-d there are ordinances, covenants and structure.

During the history of mankind many have sought for the Living G-d. In their effort they have copied as much as they possibly can from what they know of his kingdom in scripture. The prophetic symbolism in scripture for these copy cat kingdoms is given the name gentile. This is in opposition to what are identified as the kingdom or church of the devil (whose members were given the symbolic name of infidels).

A particular infidel religion (kingdom) that we learn about through scripture is call the worship of Baal and the social political structure associated with that religion is quite interesting because many in Israel thought that association to the religion of Baal did not interfere with their worship of Jehovah. But in our modern era very few have any concept of what constituted an association with the doctrine and teachings of Baal. If they did it would shake many well meaning Christians to their very core - anyway it should - but it has been my experience that in reality - very few care. Because they do not understand the very critical relationship between the "True and Living Church" and the "True and Living G-d."

The Traveler

[anatess]

Originally Posted by skippy740

I also do not know how the Lord will judge whether or not someone has 'received the gospel and rejected it'. Is it when the 1st set of missionaries knocks on their door? Is it when they read a verse in the Book of Mormon? When does the Lord say that they have rejected His gospel? I don't know. That's why He is the judge and not us.

We don't really know except that I'm fairly certain that it is not when a missionary knocks on the door or when they read the first verse of scripture... It is when you have gained a spiritual witness - a testimony - of the truth then turned your back on it. Right? I mean, my understanding is we are judged according to our knowledge. Knowledge is not knowledge until you believe it to be true.

[Misshalfway]

I appreciate the questions in this thread. I've come up against similar arguments in my own individual wrestlings. I've come to the conclusion that God is doing much more than we think He is. Why would he only give the "truth" to a small group? I really don't know. It says in the scriptures that we see through a glass darkly. I really think that is what happens when we start "fighting" over which church is true and who the "sinners" are.

Maybe our humaness makes us grow some haughtiness tares right next to our testimony filled wheat. Maybe our limited testimonies, or limited views of what God wants make us too judgmental of others....and of our own. OR...maybe we need the limited view. The "blacks" and "whites" of it gives us a psuedo sense of security. It's like our own self inflicted law of moses. It makes us feel "right" and "sure" because we can measure righteousness in some way. It's an understandable thing to do. It helps us deal with the inherent ambiguity that comes with earth life, and the search for truth, even with the reception of sure revelation and with all the clarity the restoration brings.

All I can decide is that there are many line upon lines, and much required discerning to find better/broader understanding. And I think that if we are too attached to our own "law of moses"-like beliefs, then it prevents the Lord from showing us all the stuff he is doing outside the box.

[Timpman]

I don't think the CK is only for Mormons at all. On the other side of the veil, people who were in other religions or no religion will have the opportunity to accept or reject the Plan of Salvation and its ordinances and have the chance to go to the CK.

[Timpman]

Originally Posted by Heber13

I am open to the idea that others may be following God's plan for them, with or without LDS ordinances. They have their own relationship to God.

Absolutely! Heavenly Father could have said to someone during the pre-existence "I am sending you to a place on earth where you will not learn about the Gospel. Just do the best you can and it's okay."

Those you really learn of the Gospel, though, are better off accepting it here and now.

[jb789]

Originally Posted by Heber13

Hello all.

What do you all think about other religions being just as good as the Mormon church, as long as they help people develop Christ-like qualities?

I think this is a great question - myself I've thought a lot about this, and have done a fair amount of study into Eastern philosophies such as Buddhism and Taoism, as well the writings of Jiddu Krishnamurti (though he isn't associated with any religion/organized philosophy), and I can say there is much good in all the world's great religions. And getting a fresh perspective from them has certainly helped me be more in tune with the Spirit and draw closer to God.

At the same time, to me, the clear and fundamental difference is the Christ's Church (LDS Church) is guided by direct revelation. This is quite a stunning realization - it means that, beyond the light of Christ (which all good people have access to), our church is guided by leaders that literally communicate with God, as did prophets of old. It is more than simply learning how to live in peace (which is a very important thing!) It is having revelation, which is visions, talking with God (literally), etc, that are the fruits of Christ's true organized church.

I agree that where someone's heart is is the most important thing - we are judged ultimately by our receptivity to truth, and if we love God and fellow men. All inspired leaders of various religions/philosphies have lived according to the light they had, the best they could - and if this isn't criteria for inheriting the Celestial Kingdom, I don't know what is!

Nonetheless, being guided by the light of Christ is not the same as a church founded directly by God, with revelation. Joesph Smith saw God! This is different then being guided by the light of Christ, it is a striking experience that blows all doubt out of the water - it is truly "not of this world".

So, I very much agree that the founders of the world's great religions are inspired by God - they are inspired men, teaching according to the light within them. Yet, God's organized church was founded by Him, through revelation - this is the critical difference. And all who live according to the light within them, will surely be receptive to this truth when (in this life or the next) it is presented to them.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by Heber13

Hello all.

It seems to me that we regularly recognize the good in other religions. Any good that brings people closer to God has truth in it, but we claim as Mormons more revealed truth, or greater collection of truth. The quotes are often about truth is found in many sources, but bring all that to the Mormon church and we will add unto it.

This is a comforting response to those who believe the Church is the "one true" church. It can be a bit offensive to others, obviously.

But I really want to hear from this group why we would think God would work and offer salvation for such a small group of His children? Temple work for the dead is a nice thought, but it doesn't make sense to me when this mortal life is so important in our test.

If I think this church is one way to God, but not the only way, am I on dangerous ground?

I have so many friends outside the church that are such wonderful good people, I'm not sure they NEED to convert. They are pretty dang good people now.

What do you all think about other religions being just as good as the Mormon church, as long as they help people develop Christ-like qualities?

They cannot qualify for exaltation outside the LDS Church.

Let me repeat that:

They cannot qualify for exaltation outside the LDS Church.

The LDS Church is the vehicle for Jesus Christ's gospel today. There is no other vehicle. If you want to enjoy celestial glory, it is not enough to be a good guy. You must make and then keep sacred covenants with God. Those covenants are available only through the LDS Church. No other church or organization can provide them.

Bottom line: If you are not LDS (or the postmortal equivalent thereof), you will never, ever gain exaltation. Period.

[annewandering]

Originally Posted by Vort

They cannot qualify for exaltation outside the LDS Church.

Let me repeat that:

They cannot qualify for exaltation outside the LDS Church.

The LDS Church is the vehicle for Jesus Christ's gospel today. There is no other vehicle. If you want to enjoy celestial glory, it is not enough to be a good guy. You must make and then keep sacred covenants with God. Those covenants are available only through the LDS Church. No other church or organization can provide them.

Bottom line: If you are not LDS (or the postmortal equivalent thereof), you will never, ever gain exaltation. Period.

But you can gain this knowledge after death and through proxy ordinances receive the blessing.

[Timpman]

Originally Posted by Vort

They cannot qualify for exaltation outside the LDS Church.

Let me repeat that:

They cannot qualify for exaltation outside the LDS Church.

The LDS Church is the vehicle for Jesus Christ's gospel today. There is no other vehicle. If you want to enjoy celestial glory, it is not enough to be a good guy. You must make and then keep sacred covenants with God. Those covenants are available only through the LDS Church. No other church or organization can provide them.

Bottom line: If you are not LDS (or the postmortal equivalent thereof), you will never, ever gain exaltation. Period.

Vort doesn't mess around! It's important to not overlook his words "or the postmortal equivalent thereof".