God in the Old Testament

[rlfrye]

I was at a bible study group meeting at our Branch last night, we were starting with Genesis, and a member brought up that when we see references to God in the Old Testament, that they are talking about Jesus Christ. I am looking for more info on this, as it seems to be a key belief of the LDS faith. Any help would be appreciated.

[skalenfehl]

Jehova is Jesus Christ, I am, the First and the Last, Alpha and Omega, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

[skalenfehl]

Isaiah 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isaiah 60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isaiah 44: 6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

John 1: 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Isaiah 54: 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Lots more biblical cross references. Many more yet from the Book of Mormon and D&C.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

It's also anytime you see the word "LORD" in all caps then it means Jehovah. Not just anytime you see lord in the bible.

The reason, if I remember correctly, the Hebrew word YHWH was translated by the KingJames translators as "LORD." YHWH is the word that the actual pronunciation was lost because the vowels were not written, but we understand it today to be pronounced Jehovah(Since the Doctrine and Covenants says it that way).

[volgadon]

Originally Posted by THIRDpersonviewer

but we understand it today to be pronounced Jehovah(Since the Doctrine and Covenants says it that way).

The D&C uses the standard English spelling/pronunciation, no more, no less. Some of those sounds don't even exist in Hebrew, and one has to wonder why, for example, the Russian translation of the D&C says Iegova and not Jehovah.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Sorry, my sentence from "but we understand it today to be pronounced Jehovah(Since the Doctrine and Covenants says it that way)" should have been worded differently. *We, in english, use the form Jehovah. The Doctrine and covenants uses that form.* The reason I think the doctrine and covenants usage is important is because Joseph Smith the prophet reveals the english rendering.

I agree it is not the actual rendering of the name. I am not sure we even know that, we just have transliterations from one language to the next, as we see with the russian, english and I can witness to the thai translation as well (phrayayhowah the phra at the beginning is the way thai people reference and speak about royalty).

Alma 29:8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true.

[Sunnysprite]

Originally Posted by rlfrye

I was at a bible study group meeting at our Branch last night, we were starting with Genesis, and a member brought up that when we see references to God in the Old Testament, that they are talking about Jesus Christ. I am looking for more info on this, as it seems to be a key belief of the LDS faith. Any help would be appreciated.

I'd heard it said that Melchizedek was Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ as God? That directly contradicts the New Testament. Of course you have the, "I and the Father are one", but I was once told that the more correct interpretation is: "I and the Father agree".

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by rlfrye

I was at a bible study group meeting at our Branch last night, we were starting with Genesis, and a member brought up that when we see references to God in the Old Testament, that they are talking about Jesus Christ. I am looking for more info on this, as it seems to be a key belief of the LDS faith. Any help would be appreciated.

There is one slight problem. Prior to the fall of Adam and Eve, mankind remained citizens of the Kingdom of G-d. Thus the supreme Suzerain of that kingdom was G-d the Father. With the fall man was excommunicated and lost the rights of citizens – including the right of having the Father as our G-d. This drastic measure is represented in scripture as the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Eden. Though man was no longer worthy to be a citizen of that kingdom of heaven – The Father appointed Jesus Christ as the supreme Suzerain of a lessor kingdom where he could also act in the role of mediator with the Father. At least until man could be restored (redeemed, salvaged or saved) from his fallen state. Thus we become “agents” of Christ which by law holds him also responsible for our sins.

So for fallen man there is only one Suzerain G-d – besides which there is no other G-d that in reality is our savior or redeemer. This is why Jesus is also called our mediator with the Father. Thus following the fall – all connections of man to G-d is specifically to and uniquely to Jesus Christ. If the Suzerain G-d remained the same before and after the fall – then in truth there really was not a fall and man does not need a mediator, redeemer or savior.

The Traveler

[Finrock]

Originally Posted by Traveler

There is one slight problem. Prior to the fall of Adam and Eve, mankind remained citizens of the Kingdom of G-d. Thus the supreme Suzerain of that kingdom was G-d the Father. With the fall man was excommunicated and lost the rights of citizens – including the right of having the Father as our G-d. This drastic measure is represented in scripture as the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Eden. Though man was no longer worthy to be a citizen of that kingdom of heaven – The Father appointed Jesus Christ as the supreme Suzerain of a lessor kingdom where he could also act in the role of mediator with the Father. At least until man could be restored (redeemed, salvaged or saved) from his fallen state. Thus we become “agents” of Christ which by law holds him also responsible for our sins.

So for fallen man there is only one Suzerain G-d – besides which there is no other G-d that in reality is our savior or redeemer. This is why Jesus is also called our mediator with the Father. Thus following the fall – all connections of man to G-d is specifically to and uniquely to Jesus Christ. If the Suzerain G-d remained the same before and after the fall – then in truth there really was not a fall and man does not need a mediator, redeemer or savior.

The Traveler

You've come up with a creative interpretation of scripture. I believe, however, that the OP was wanting to know what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches about this subject matter.

Regards,
Finrock

[Drac]

Other than the being citizens and stuff that is pretty consistent with LDS doctrine. In the Garden of Eden the Father dealt directly with Adam. After the fall Jehovah dealt with mankind as the intermediary between us and Heavenly Father. 3 Ne 1:10-15 has Nephi praying and the Lord (Jehovah) tells him that he is coming in to the world.

Although we worship and pray to Heavenly Father I love having the understanding of Jesus being the great Jehovah. It shows just how great is role is. He is the creator and savior, all being done under the direction of the Father. He appeared to the Brother of Jarod in Ether and showed His spirit self which was long before he was born. "Behold this body, which you now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear to thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh." -Ether 3:16