Gospel Principles: Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family

[alexamasan]

Hello everyone,

I just want to make sure with you guys I am not misinterpreting what I am learning, so I'm going to rewrite what I think the parts gospel principle means and I hope you can give feedback on whether I have it right or not.

So everyone who was ever born on the earth was once a heavenly spirit in heaven and we were with God. In order for us to mature and gain our Godly qualities and be like him, we had to leave the "nest" of heaven. We had to leave to gain experience to develop our Godly qualities and so that is why we came to earth with physical bodies. The trials we face on earth are what help gain our Godly nature when we overcome them.

While we're here, we choose whether to follow God or not. Our memories of when we were in heaven are currently blocked off so we choose God by faith rather than our memory of him. Our physical bodies will die and then later we are resurrected.

Do I understand correctly so far?

[annewandering]

Sounds right to me.

[alexamasan]

Originally Posted by annewandering

Sounds right to me.

Thank you annewandering.

So now this brings up questions for me.

Just to make sure I'm not assuming, can any of you help me understand what it means to have our divine qualities developed once we are resurrected? How is someone who has followed God's plan, went through the trials, and developed his Divine nature, different from someone who has not yet developed his Divine nature.

[bytebear]

So, we believe that all mankind who was born will be resurrected. But the order of resurrection will be based on criteria of worthiness. There will be 1000 years of peace and after that will come the judgement, so our resurrection is a pre-judgement, but not final judgement. After the final judgement we are deemed worthy to live with God, and to continue to progress. So damnation is an end to progression.

[changed]

Originally Posted by alexamasan

Thank you annewandering.

So now this brings up questions for me.

Just to make sure I'm not assuming, can any of you help me understand what it means to have our divine qualities developed once we are resurrected? How is someone who has followed God's plan, went through the trials, and developed his Divine nature, different from someone who has not yet developed his Divine nature.

The natural man I guess would entail someone with all the negative attributes that you can think of (dishonest, lies, steals, angry, selfish, lazy etc. etc.) and then the divine attributes would be all of the good qualities that you can think of (honest, humble, trusting and trustworthy, loving, charitable, loyal, dependable, hard working etc. etc.)

I think those who follow God's plan get a head start on others, they get the guidance of the Holy Spirit who helps them on their way.... we believe that everyone has the light of Christ within them (AKA our conscience) and if they follow their conscience they are attaining divine properties (if they are in the church or out of it). I think it is much easier to learn and grow with the support of the church group though, and the increased presence of the Spirit that comes through having faith in God.

[alexamasan]

Thank you

Does the natural man have a tendency to sin? As we develop our divine qualities, we gradually overcome our sins? Is that an appropriate way to look at the situation?

[changed]

Originally Posted by alexamasan

Thank you

Does the natural man have a tendency to sin? As we develop our divine qualities, we gradually overcome our sins? Is that an appropriate way to look at the situation?

Yes, the natural man has a tendency to sin, and I think as we develop we not only overcome committing sins, I think there is a point where it isn't even tempting anymore.

Sometimes it takes something horrible - like watching someone you love die in a drunk driving accident, that forever after turns your stomach inside out so you are not only not tempted, but are sickened and repelled by evil - that you come to passionately hate it. That's the hard way to learn though. The better way is to learn the joys of where God wants to take us first hand. Who wants to play in the filthy mud when they realize they could be relaxing on a beautiful pristine beach? Experience in either direction - either coming to know why evil is evil, or coming to know why good is good - either way should move us along the road.

I've posted this before, but it is something that I love, so I will post it again - and that is about the New Testament Greek word "metanoeō". Jesus spent the majority of his ministry preaching about metanoeō, but I think there are some details that are lost in the translation process.

Meta = change (like metastable is a state of flux between two different states of being)
noeō = conscience / mind / how you perceive what reality is.

Here are some of the scriptures that use the word metanoeō (scroll down)
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

it has been translated as "repent", but I like to read it as "change how you perceive reality", which is in essence changing from a natural man into someone who is refined.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Originally Posted by alexamasan

Hello everyone,

I just want to make sure with you guys I am not misinterpreting what I am learning, so I'm going to rewrite what I think the parts gospel principle means and I hope you can give feedback on whether I have it right or not.

So everyone who was ever born on the earth was once a heavenly spirit in heaven and we were with God. In order for us to mature and gain our Godly qualities and be like him, we had to leave the "nest" of heaven. We had to leave to gain experience to develop our Godly qualities and so that is why we came to earth with physical bodies. The trials we face on earth are what help gain our Godly nature when we overcome them.

While we're here, we choose whether to follow God or not. Our memories of when we were in heaven are currently blocked off so we choose God by faith rather than our memory of him. Our physical bodies will die and then later we are resurrected.

Do I understand correctly so far?

Not "mature", we were mature spirits upon leaving.

Think of it more like going to graduate school. Those students are mature students but still progressing beyond graduating past certain levels. LDS believe that all spirits that make it here have passed the first test, the test between choosing God's plan versus the deception of Satan, intellectually. We all believe in this plan. Now we are to show if we would really do what we said we would do, when push comes to shove so-to-speak. This is why we all are going to be resurrected through the grace of God, we all passed the first estate test. This is where some confusion arises about our Christian beliefs. Are beliefs go beyond that step as we believe we have all "matured" past that step. Now we determine what kingdom of glory we obtain. What level of glory is determined by combining faith with works. Those that are easily swayed by physical temptations and their hearts turn to treasures that turn to dust will only achieve a lower level of glory. Whereas those that keep their hearts with single passion to the glory of God will achieve the highest level. Our true nature is revealed by our choices in life, do we choose carnal things or spiritual things and to what degree. Our true nature is not what we claim to be alone, intellectual acceptance, but also the willingness to do what we are asked to do. That is why believing with faith, repentance and baptism is just the gait. The admonition of Paul summarizes the path beyond the gait.

I think there is a misunderstanding even amongst LDS that our goal here is to somehow overcome the world by ourselves. This is not what we believe. We are not here to learn how to overcome the world by our own ability. We are here to learn, if learning is needed, to trust in the Lords plan which through Him we can learn to overcome the things of the world. It is the mastery of desire and will (desires of the heart) that we are after, not the actual overcoming of the world. Christ will overcome the world.

[alexamasan]

Originally Posted by changed

Yes, the natural man has a tendency to sin, and I think as we develop we not only overcome committing sins, I think there is a point where it isn't even tempting anymore.

Sometimes it takes something horrible - like watching someone you love die in a drunk driving accident, that forever after turns your stomach inside out so you are not only not tempted, but are sickened and repelled by evil - that you come to passionately hate it. That's the hard way to learn though. The better way is to learn the joys of where God wants to take us first hand. Who wants to play in the filthy mud when they realize they could be relaxing on a beautiful pristine beach? Experience in either direction - either coming to know why evil is evil, or coming to know why good is good - either way should move us along the road.

I've posted this before, but it is something that I love, so I will post it again - and that is about the New Testament Greek word "metanoeō". Jesus spent the majority of his ministry preaching about metanoeō, but I think there are some details that are lost in the translation process.

Meta = change (like metastable is a state of flux between two different states of being)
noeō = conscience / mind / how you perceive what reality is.

Here are some of the scriptures that use the word metanoeō (scroll down)
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

it has been translated as "repent", but I like to read it as "change how you perceive reality", which is in essence changing from a natural man into someone who is refined.

Thanks,

So just to make sure I do not misunderstand, how do you define what sin is? Do you define it as the transgression of God's Law?

[Vort]

Originally Posted by alexamasan

Thanks,

So just to make sure I do not misunderstand, how do you define what sin is? Do you define it as the transgression of God's Law?

This New Testament definition is clearly incomplete. Where there is no law given, there is no possibility to sin. Accountability for sin is only for those who have been given a law before transgressing it.

Perhaps you will say that it is not possible to transgress God's law until you have been given that law. In that case, as the New Testament teaches, sin is indeed transgression of the law. But we need to make sure we understand terminology before rendering judgment based on glib phraseology.