Questions about a website

[Steve_Boveave]

I stumbled across a website called FamousDeadMormons.com. In this website, it lists many, many people who have been converted to Mormonism after they died. A few names mentioned were George Carlin, Carl Sagan, Saint Ambrose and Óscar Romero, a man who was a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in El Salvador and became an Archbishop later on.

I don't understand why the 1st two people I mentioned were converted, and I certainly don't understand why the last two were. They belonged to a different faith, but they were converted to a religion they didn't want any part of. I understand if people react negatively to what i'm about to ask, but how is this ok? Another person on the list is Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers was a Presbyterian minister. Why would you make Mr. Rogers a mormon? Why is Babe Ruth or George Orwell on this list?

Again, if this breaks the 1st rule of the site, them i'm sorry I did so, but as someone who has genuine questions about religion, I just wanted to ask it. Thank you for reading this. Have a great day.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

Originally Posted by Steve_Boveave

I stumbled across a website called FamousDeadMormons.com. In this website, it lists many, many people who have been converted to Mormonism after they died. A few names mentioned were George Carlin, Carl Sagan, Saint Ambrose and Óscar Romero, a man who was a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in El Salvador and became an Archbishop later on.

I don't understand why the 1st two people I mentioned were converted, and I certainly don't understand why the last two were. They belonged to a different faith, but they were converted to a religion they didn't want any part of. I understand if people react negatively to what i'm about to ask, but how is this ok? Another person on the list is Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers was a Presbyterian minister. Why would you make Mr. Rogers a mormon? Why is Babe Ruth or George Orwell on this list?

Again, if this breaks the 1st rule of the site, them i'm sorry I did so, but as someone who has genuine questions about religion, I just wanted to ask it. Thank you for reading this. Have a great day.

Hey how are you doing?

So, to answer your question it's not that Mormons believe that they are converted after they die. I'll give you some context of what we believe and how that fits in with your question.

We believe that we lived with God before this life. He setup a plan that we could choose to follow or not, and if we followed it then we would be happy for the afterlife. We came to this earth to basically see if we would keep His commandments and follow the plan. When we are here we can choose to follow Him or not. Now not everyone knows what He wants us to do. Think of Africans who live in the country and are nomadic with little foreign interaction; they probably have never heard of God. That leads us into the afterlife. When we die, what happens immediately after this life before the final judgment is God makes sure that everyone has an opportunity to follow Him or not.

So, what Mormons believe is that God commanded us to be baptized along with other simple sacred rituals. The rituals might sound weird, but they are quite simple, baptism is being immersed in water by someone who has authority from God to do so. Receiving the Holy Spirit is done by a person with authority from God and laying hands on the head and pronouncing a blessing from God. These are quite simple things, but their meaning is substantial. Each one of these signifies an increase of desire on your part to follow God and live closer to His precepts. Some of the rituals will require a little more than others, but they all bring us closer to God and to the eternal happiness He wants to give us.

With that backdrop, Mormons baptize people as a representative for a deceased person. I.E. A person who is alive was baptized representing Carl Sagan and these other men.
The reason is to give them the opportunity, which might have been missed in this life for whatever reason, to follow God and get closer to Him.

We don't know if they accept the proxy ordinances. We just want all people to have the opportunity. God doesn't force us, we choose to follow or not. Same with those who have passed away. These men can choose to accept these proxy ordinances or not. We do this because we love our fellow brothers and sisters and want them to have the same opportunity to be eternally happy.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask any more questions that you may have.

[Steve_Boveave]

Originally Posted by THIRDpersonviewer

Hey how are you doing?

So, to answer your question it's not that Mormons believe that they are converted after they die. I'll give you some context of what we believe and how that fits in with your question.

We believe that we lived with God before this life. He setup a plan that we could choose to follow or not, and if we followed it then we would be happy for the afterlife. We came to this earth to basically see if we would keep His commandments and follow the plan. When we are here we can choose to follow Him or not. Now not everyone knows what He wants us to do. Think of Africans who live in the country and are nomadic with little foreign interaction; they probably have never heard of God. That leads us into the afterlife. When we die, what happens immediately after this life before the final judgment is God makes sure that everyone has an opportunity to follow Him or not.

So, what Mormons believe is that God commanded us to be baptized along with other simple sacred rituals. The rituals might sound weird, but they are quite simple, baptism is being immersed in water by someone who has authority from God to do so. Receiving the Holy Spirit is done by a person with authority from God and laying hands on the head and pronouncing a blessing from God. These are quite simple things, but their meaning is substantial. Each one of these signifies an increase of desire on your part to follow God and live closer to His precepts. Some of the rituals will require a little more than others, but they all bring us closer to God and to the eternal happiness He wants to give us.

With that backdrop, Mormons baptize people as a representative for a deceased person. I.E. A person who is alive was baptized representing Carl Sagan and these other men.
The reason is to give them the opportunity, which might have been missed in this life for whatever reason, to follow God and get closer to Him.

We don't know if they accept the proxy ordinances. We just want all people to have the opportunity. God doesn't force us, we choose to follow or not. Same with those who have passed away. These men can choose to accept these proxy ordinances or not. We do this because we love our fellow brothers and sisters and want them to have the same opportunity to be eternally happy.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask any more questions that you may have.

I understand giving people like Carl Sagan and George Carlin, non-believers who didn't have faith when they died, a chance to hear god's message. Yet, as an agnostic, I can't help but think of the other religions. When the nomatic tribes in africa hear about god's word, they're hearing one interpretation from a sect that has the funds to educate them. That may be a protestant church, a methodist church, or even a jewish temple. Let's say that judiasm believed in proxy ordinances like mormons do. If a jewish temple gave proxy ordinances as well, then we'd have a lot of people in the afterlife getting at least 2 versions of god's word.

I mentioned earlier that I can see why you'd give non-believers the chance to hear god's word. I still can't wrap my head around why people like St. Ambrose and Óscar Romero were given proxy ordinances. They were popular figure-heads in their own religions, and they believed what they spoke about as much as you do.

After posting this thread, I also found out that Anne Frank was baptized 67 years after her death, and the jewish community was up in arms about it, and rightly so. Again, I see why you'd offer someone a chance at god's word, but why try to convert someone who obviously has faith in a different belief? If we can't determine what god wants us to do, then won't we all get the chance to accept his(or her) word by default when we die? If we do, then why have proxy ordinances?

[FlaviusHambonius]

There is the possibility that if you have a hard core Baptist, Methodist, Catholic or whatever faith that they had here in mortality and that faith was still strong within them when they passed, chances are that they will stay strong in that faith in the hereafter.
LDS theology is that they (the LDS faith) will have missionary work in the spirit world teaching those spirits that have passed important things pertaining to the kingdom of God....at least those things according to LDS theology.
But if these same spirits that were so strong in their faith here on earth and rejected other belief systems here on earth ....ie Mormonism for example, how would they're thought patterns change so dramatically that all of the sudden they accept Mormonisim?
How do we know that spirits that had other belief systems are not also preaching they're particulair brand of faith?

Mormons believe that when your spirit leaves your body, that spirit will take the same characteristics with them into the next realm. So for spirits that held different light and knowledge and beliefs contrary to LDS might still find it difficult to jump ship.

I don't think the Lord is going to sit everybody down in the spirit world and expound LDS theology to everyone.

Spirits that never believed in God while in mortality I'm sure are having a whole new world opened up to them....but where that will lead them who knows?

These are just random thoughts and speculation on my part.

[pam]

Okay well here is the thing. We don't know if they were converted or not. How would we know that unless we have some direct channel to the spirit world.

There is the possibility that temple ordinances were done for them by proxy after they passed away. But there is no way of knowing if they accepted the ordinances done for them.

[FlaviusHambonius]

I'm at work and the web-site is filtered so I didn't get to check it out, but I did get a good chuckle when the OP said that all of these people have been converted to Mormonisim.....I mean come on George Carlin? That must of been one outstanding missionary in the spirit world.

You would have to have spiritual eyes for a brief moment in time or as Pam said a direct line to the spirit world, but no way of knowing who has accepted what.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by Steve_Boveave

I stumbled across a website called FamousDeadMormons.com. In this website, it lists many, many people who have been converted to Mormonism after they died. A few names mentioned were George Carlin, Carl Sagan, Saint Ambrose and Óscar Romero, a man who was a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in El Salvador and became an Archbishop later on.

I don't understand why the 1st two people I mentioned were converted, and I certainly don't understand why the last two were. They belonged to a different faith, but they were converted to a religion they didn't want any part of. I understand if people react negatively to what i'm about to ask, but how is this ok? Another person on the list is Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers was a Presbyterian minister. Why would you make Mr. Rogers a mormon? Why is Babe Ruth or George Orwell on this list?

Again, if this breaks the 1st rule of the site, them i'm sorry I did so, but as someone who has genuine questions about religion, I just wanted to ask it. Thank you for reading this. Have a great day.

The site you reference is a lie, an antiMormon diatribe dressed up as lame "comedy".

We do not "convert" dead people to Mormonism. We do sacred ordinances in their name to offer them the possibility of having these ordinances if they want them, because the ordinances must be done in life.

If you are truly curious about Mormonism, I urge you not to waste your time with antiMormons.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

What Vort said. When you go to an anti mormon to find out about mormon beliefs, that's sort of like going to a fire & brimstone southern Baptist to find out what agnostics believe.