fear vs Love

[Avrham]

I was sitting in the testimony meeting the other week and it was the first time in 2yrs since I have attended any Church meetings and was paying attention(as always) to what was being said majority of the testimonies seemed to have a fear basis to it like ''I fear God so I do not disobey '' and it seemed that peoples motivation is out of fear which I find kind strange . I made the comment to my friend later on who gave his testimony, about this line of reasoning because I was always taught that we do things because we love the Savior and that fear does not come into the equation . My personal belief is the more I love God/Savior the more it motivates me to serve . It seemed on that day the fear of God was present in the testimonies given , However I have also found that other Christian/religions seem to follow this path my readings in the Old testament is that fear of God is not unusual . So should fear play a part in motivation for Obedience?

just my thoughts

[Anddenex]

If fear is what keeps a person obedient, yes, then I would rather see a person fear God and keep his commandments, verses disobeying because they do not love him enough.

Our primary motivation should be love. This is the hallmark of a disciple.

Alma the younger's conversion first began with fear, so much fear that it caused him to faint, and he recognized his awful state. In time fear, was no longer a motivating factor, but his love for God and his fellow men, for he shrank at the very thought that any of his brethren would find themselves as he was.

[Eowyn]

Reasons for obedience are on a continuum, starting with fear and culminating in love. Everyone is in their own place. As long as we're striving for better, it's all good.

[Avrham]

Originally Posted by Anddenex

If fear is what keeps a person obedient, yes, then I would rather see a person fear God and keep his commandments, verses disobeying because they do not love him enough.

I find this interesting because we are ordered to love God and are neighbor If one just simply obeys an order because of fear then maybe that person has not yet developed a relationship at that point .

Originally Posted by Anddenex

Our primary motivation should be love.

Yes I totally agree I believe Love is the only way too God because I also believe that without it everything else we do is irrelevant because change can only happen If you have love which causes the change of heart

Originally Posted by Anddenex

Alma the younger's conversion first began with fear, so much fear that it caused him to faint, and he recognized his awful state. In time fear, was no longer a motivating factor, but his love for God and his fellow men, for he shrank at the very thought that any of his brethren would find themselves as he was.

I think it was Alma becoming aware of his sins and being honest about them with the Lord and not so much about him fearing God but the sins he committed and transgressed so yes He experienced a change in heart which all Christians are striving for and it was Love that brought this experiance about and not fear
but thank you for reminding me about Alma the younger's conversion and sharing your thoughts

[Connie]

See these links:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/fe...g=eng&letter=f

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/fe...g=eng&letter=f

[Anddenex]

Originally Posted by Avrham

I find this interesting because we are ordered to love God and are neighbor If one just simply obeys an order because of fear then maybe that person has not yet developed a relationship at that point .

I would agree. In high school I kept the commandments partially due to my fear for hell. I did not have the relationship, nor did I have the understanding, I do right now.

It would be nice if people kept the commandments because of love, however, again, I would rather see someone keep the commandments out of fear, than not keeping them at all.

[james12]

Originally Posted by Anddenex

I would agree. In high school I kept the commandments partially due to my fear for hell. I did not have the relationship, nor did I have the understanding, I do right now.

It would be nice if people kept the commandments because of love, however, again, I would rather see someone keep the commandments out of fear, than not keeping them at all.

If fear is an acceptable motivator for obedience I would then ask these questions:

1. Should someone be forced to obey?
2. If not, where then does one draw the line in order to obtain obedience?
3. Does the Lord use fear to gain obedience?
4. Is there really some continuum of obedience within the gospel of Fear -> Duty -> Love?

[Anddenex]

Originally Posted by james12

If fear is an acceptable motivator for obedience I would then ask these questions:

1. Should someone be forced to obey?
2. If not, where then does one draw the line in order to obtain obedience?
3. Does the Lord use fear to gain obedience?
4. Is there really some continuum of obedience within the gospel of Fear -> Duty -> Love?

I don't believe fear is an acceptable motivator, however if it is fear that motivates then that is a personal choice. It would have been better for me, when in high school, to act in obedience as a result of my love for God. Unfortunately, I was naive and allowed fear to rule my actions.

Although fear was a motivating factor for me, would it have been better for me to break the law of chastity, due to a lack of love for God? Or would it have been better for me to keep the law of chastity, even if fear was the motivating factor?

I believe, a person is better off to allow fear to compel obedience, rather than denying the judgments of God and breaking his commandments because people do not love him enough.

Force is an interesting word. The question I would ask in return, is it OK to compel obedience?

If so, is God the only source allowed to compel, or is this extended also to us?

People are in prison as a result of their personal agency and the agency of others to compel them or to keep them from committing other crimes. Is this OK?

Just to reiterate, I don't believe fear is an acceptable motivator, however I do believe that it is better for a person to obey, even if it is from fear.

[Avrham]

Thought this was interesting one of the Seven gifts of the Holy Ghost from the Catchism of the Catholic Church as described by St Thomas Aquinas from the Summa Theologica
''Fear of the Lord (Wonder and Awe): With the gift of fear of the Lord we are aware of the glory and majesty of God. A person with wonder and awe knows that God is the perfection of all we desire: perfect knowledge, perfect goodness, perfect power, and perfect love. This gift is described by Aquinas as a fear of separating oneself from God. He describes the gift as a "filial fear," like a child's fear of offending his father, rather than a "servile fear," that is, a fear of punishment. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Prov 1:7) because it puts our mindset in correct location with respect to God: we are the finite, dependent creatures, and He is the infinite, all-powerful Creator.''
found this very interesting years ago when ever fear and worship was mentioned in RE(Religious Education) and puts a another enlightening perspective

[RMGuy]

I always love (hate) the argument to pay tithing based on the fact that you won't be burned at His coming, or that tithing is fire insurance. It always strikes me as a mafia protection racket.

-RM