Keeping Christianity in Christmas

[changed]

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to start a thread about Christmas as it is increasingly under attack by secularists who would rather celebrate "winter holidays". What are your thoughts/ideas about how to promote the real meaning of Christmas in your communities during this season?

Should Christian Christmas music be allowed in parades? in public schools?
Should a nativity scene be allowed at civic centers?
Is there anywhere that it is inappropriate to wish someone a Merry "Christmas"?
What stores should we support? What stores promote a secular message, vs. which stores promote a Christian message?

This is an interesting vid when considering what our founding father's believed, and what their intentions were when they made laws concerning religious freedom:
U.S. Capitol Tour with David Barton - YouTube

what are your favorite sources that discuss religious freedom?

Thanks!!!
Wishing everyone out there a very joyful and Christ filled Christmas!

[Jenamarie]

I don't believe Christmas is under attack.

Originally Posted by changed

Hi everyone!

Should Christian Christmas music be allowed in parades? in public schools? If it's a community parade and a Christian group wants to sing carols, sure.
Should a nativity scene be allowed at civic centers? Publicly owned land? Only if other religious groups are just as welcomed to put their own religious displays on the land. It's PUBLIC land, NOT Christian land, so there shouldn't be favoritism or preferred treatment.
Is there anywhere that it is inappropriate to wish someone a Merry "Christmas"? To me this depends more on the spirit in which the "wish" is given. Are you doing it out of a genuine wish for a happy holiday, or to "rub in" that you're not going to be "PC" and wish them a Happy Holidays, whether or not you know if they also celebrate Christmas. The first to me is a Christ-like attitude, the second not so much
What stores should we support? What stores promote a secular message, vs. which stores promote a Christian message? I'm more concerned with which stores run their companies and treat their employees in a Christian-like manner. You can tell me you're a "Christian company" and post "Merry Christmas!" signs around your store all you want, but if you're forcing your employees to work long hours without adequate compensation, or if your business practices are otherwise less than honest, you're not getting my business.

This is an interesting vid when considering what our founding father's believed, and what their intentions were when they made laws concerning religious freedom:
U.S. Capitol Tour with David Barton - YouTube

what are your favorite sources that discuss religious freedom?

Thanks!!!
Wishing everyone out there a very joyful and Christ filled Christmas!

Overall, I think it's our actions that will spread the true "Christmas Spirit". If we come across as trying to force those who celebrate a secular Christmas, or don't celebrate at all, to "suck it up and deal" then we're failing as Christians.

[bytor2112]

Well Christmas is so very divisive. Perhaps a nice winter holiday bush would do less to scar and offend and an all inclusive greeting would be best.

Like, Happy Rhamahannaquansmas!

[LittleWyvern]

Originally Posted by changed

What are your thoughts/ideas about how to promote the real meaning of Christmas in your communities during this season?

Act Christlike. To use one of my favorite (although probably apocryphal) quotes:

Originally Posted by St. Francis of Assisi

Preach the Gospel always and, if necessary, use words.

Originally Posted by changed

Should Christian Christmas music be allowed in parades?

Uh, sure, if the city approves it.

Originally Posted by changed

in public schools?

No. The 1st Amendment clearly states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion[.]" Because the school is on Federal or State land, I think playing Christmas music there would fail this test.

Originally Posted by changed

Should a nativity scene be allowed at civic centers?

No, for the same reason as my last answer. However, I see the benefit of civic centers doing the "let's put up stuff from every holiday" approach, and I like that. It doesn't respect any religion over the other, and so I think it would be fine 1st Amendment-wise.

Originally Posted by changed

Is there anywhere that it is inappropriate to wish someone a Merry "Christmas"?

Uhh... depends on why it is said. I completely agree with Jenamarie's answer here.

Originally Posted by changed

What stores should we support? What stores promote a secular message, vs. which stores promote a Christian message?

I also agree with Jenamarie here. Christmas is more than just a word or a generic declaration of belief, it's a reminder of peace and becoming more Christ-like. Thus, as far as deciding what stores to support, I think we should go far deeper than just looking to see which stores say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays."

[prisonchaplain]

What I find sad is that most of those who work to sideline Christmas are trying to protect people who are not offended by the Christian holiday. Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet. Most atheist would just smile with smugness at our clinging to superstition. Immigrants mostly figure Christmas is integral to American culture. Jehovah's Witnesses see Christmas as yet another affirmation that the world is evil and they are a small and precious remnant. Only observant Jews might be discomforted by having their children subjected to repeated references to a messiah they do not believe in. Yet 85% of Jews are secular in this country.

It all reminds me of a scene from the Joy Luck Club. The anglo husband of a Chinese wife decides to help his mother in law by pouring a bunch of soy sauce on her prized dish. There is audible gasping as he smiles and says, "This isn't so bad--it just needs a little soy sauce," and then proceeds to drown the food in it. Poor sap did not figure out how offensive he had been until the drive home.

I wonder how many of those the secularists are trying to protect would shake them and say, "You're just being obnoxious. Please stop doing it in my name."

[anatess]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

What I find sad is that most of those who work to sideline Christmas are trying to protect people who are not offended by the Christian holiday. Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet. Most atheist would just smile with smugness at our clinging to superstition. Immigrants mostly figure Christmas is integral to American culture. Jehovah's Witnesses see Christmas as yet another affirmation that the world is evil and they are a small and precious remnant. Only observant Jews might be discomforted by having their children subjected to repeated references to a messiah they do not believe in. Yet 85% of Jews are secular in this country.

It all reminds me of a scene from the Joy Luck Club. The anglo husband of a Chinese wife decides to help his mother in law by pouring a bunch of soy sauce on her prized dish. There is audible gasping as he smiles and says, "This isn't so bad--it just needs a little soy sauce," and then proceeds to drown the food in it. Poor sap did not figure out how offensive he had been until the drive home.

I wonder how many of those the secularists are trying to protect would shake them and say, "You're just being obnoxious. Please stop doing it in my name."

And more to the point of the Joy Luck Club incident - it got started by the mother's Chinese culture of insulting her own prized dish as a sign of humility. The American, of course, did not know anything about this culture, so he shot straight from the hip as is his culture - he really did think the dish tasted flat.

So... about Happy Holidays and stores - why is it a bad thing to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas when you cater to all customers? Instead of having to expect the American to praise the flat Chinese cooking because it's the Chinese culture, and the Chinese to have to put up with the American critique and not feel any insult... why not just say Happy Holidays and wish everybody the best of the season in whatever way they observe it? In my opinion, it is a respectful thing to do for a business whose mission is to provide good customer service to all customers regardless of religious background.

Living your Faith does not hinge on sticking up for your religion by saying Merry Christmas to non-Christians. Living your Faith is deciding to serve the wounded Samaritan even when the culture around you compells one to keep walking.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by changed

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to start a thread about Christmas as it is increasingly under attack by secularists who would rather celebrate "winter holidays". What are your thoughts/ideas about how to promote the real meaning of Christmas in your communities during this season?

Should Christian Christmas music be allowed in parades? in public schools?
Should a nativity scene be allowed at civic centers?
Is there anywhere that it is inappropriate to wish someone a Merry "Christmas"?
What stores should we support? What stores promote a secular message, vs. which stores promote a Christian message?

This is an interesting vid when considering what our founding father's believed, and what their intentions were when they made laws concerning religious freedom:
U.S. Capitol Tour with David Barton - YouTube

what are your favorite sources that discuss religious freedom?

Thanks!!!
Wishing everyone out there a very joyful and Christ filled Christmas!

The assault by secularists is bigoted and prejudice specifically towards Christians. There is no effort to remove religious symbolism in the naming of planets. The reason is because they are not Christian based. There is no effort to remove religious symbolism - such as judge's robes from either use or municipal display - just Christian symbolism. I could go on.

I believe we should take every opportunity to expose the current secular campaign for what it is; a bigoted, prejudicial campaign of malice and hatred specifically targeting Christians and should be outlawed and the legal perpetrators disbarred.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by anatess

So... about Happy Holidays and stores - why is it a bad thing to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas when you cater to all customers?

I am okay with Happy Holidays. It is respectful. I understand that those few who do not celebrate Christmas feel left out or unblessed when we say Merry Christmas. I get that these folks don't want their children subjected to good tidings that are based in the Christian religion.

What I despise is the implication that we are bigots, insensitive, and bullies because we want to continue a long national tradition of rejoicing in a holiday that 80% claim to actively believe in, and another 15% have no problem with. I find it irritating that the tail is wagging the dog here, then cursing the dog for reacting. I also feel as if I am slapped in the face when someone files to remove a Nativity Scene from a public place just because s/he can, and gets some bizzare self-satisfaction out of taking away something that most of the community finds special.

Nevertheless, you are right. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, not to lash out. The clerk who says, "Happy Holidays," deserves a smile and our best blessing. The atheist activist needs to see that our faith is stronger than to need public display.

Ironically, I really do wish that all the naysayers could enjoy a very Merry Christmas.

[Vort]

Originally Posted by LittleWyvern

No. The 1st Amendment clearly states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion[.]"

That is not what is meant by "establishing a religion". Read up on disestablishmentarianism.

[changed]

Originally Posted by Vort

That is not what is meant by "establishing a religion". Read up on disestablishmentarianism.

I need to read through all of this again:
Religious Freedom

Originally Posted by LittleWyvern

... I see the benefit of civic centers doing the "let's put up stuff from every holiday" approach, and I like that. It doesn't respect any religion over the other, and so I think it would be fine 1st Amendment-wise.

I like the idea of putting a nice display from everyone out, including one area for the nativity. I would rather have everything, then nothing at all.

I think we should go far deeper than just looking to see which stores say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays."

so, what stores do you support, and why? I support farmer's markets and a few thrift stores in my neighborhood who support homeless shelters and the like... I have a hard time buying something new, because I have issues with most of the stores that sell new stuff