1st marriage to man's 2nd- help!

[SisterGraceLDS]

Be careful who you date. Date only those you would marry. For you could end up falling in love. Choose wisely.

[anatess]

Originally Posted by SisterGraceLDS

Posting on LDS Gospel Discussion forum as I need genuine answers.

Am member in good standing with temple recommend. Have served in Primary since becoming active in church- and don't know much about 'adult' matters.

Never married, but engaged!!!! He is divorced (was sealed in temple to former wife). She left the marriage to be with other men and the marriage was broken, unable to be worked out- they divorced.

Here's my questions-

If a sister marries a man who has already been sealed before- what does that mean for the first wife and the second?

With regards to the atonement- the first wife so regrets her actions and has begged him to take her back. He has declined.

Even if we marry, won't the atonement take care of her- if she lives the rest of her life righteously and doesn't remarry- always wanting her exhusband and family back? So if I marry him - what happens to me?

Any insight you can offer would be helpful. And yes- I understand the Lord takes care of everything in the next life- that goes without saying. But I also believe anyone entering something going in- already knowing- they consent to whatever.... I want to be knowledgable and make informed decisions.

Thanks!

A man can be sealed to more than one wife. Even if your husband do not wish to go through a cancellation of his previous sealing, he can still get sealed to you in the Temple.

What will happen to you? If you remain faithful to your temple covenants, you will spend eternity in celestial glory - regardless of what your husband or his ex-wife does.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by SisterGraceLDS

Posting on LDS Gospel Discussion forum as I need genuine answers.

Am member in good standing with temple recommend. Have served in Primary since becoming active in church- and don't know much about 'adult' matters.

Never married, but engaged!!!! He is divorced (was sealed in temple to former wife). She left the marriage to be with other men and the marriage was broken, unable to be worked out- they divorced.

Here's my questions-

If a sister marries a man who has already been sealed before- what does that mean for the first wife and the second?

With regards to the atonement- the first wife so regrets her actions and has begged him to take her back. He has declined.

Even if we marry, won't the atonement take care of her- if she lives the rest of her life righteously and doesn't remarry- always wanting her exhusband and family back? So if I marry him - what happens to me?

Any insight you can offer would be helpful. And yes- I understand the Lord takes care of everything in the next life- that goes without saying. But I also believe anyone entering something going in- already knowing- they consent to whatever.... I want to be knowledgable and make informed decisions.

Thanks!

Your question has to do with covenants and in particular with broken covenants and repentance.

1. When a covenant is broken the blessings of the covenant are lost and the covenant punishments or promised maledictions (sometimes called curses) come into play. It is important to know and understand that just as there are blessings for being loyal to covenants there are repercussions for breaking one's covenants. This is all in accord with the principles of Law and Justice.

When one breaks their covenants the lose the blessing and the repercussions of justice require a "punishment". In the case of breaking a temple covenant of marriage the blessings of being sealed by the power of the Holy Ghost are lost (forever). That is not a punishment but a loss of blessings.

The punishment is that a person is subject to Satan, his buffetings and controls. This is an awful state that is very damaging to a person's spirit and will bring about eternal damnation. The only escape is repentance. By repentance a person can through the mercies and atonement of Christ receive a remission from Satan and his imprisonment of the sole.

But repentance is a remission of sins and is not a restoration of lost blessings. It is only by obedience to the law that blessings can be obtained. Thus in order for the "first wife" to obtain the blessings of eternal marriage she must enter into that covenant anew -- in other words start over - which includes finding a partner willing to take her in the covenant of marriage.

It is my experience that righteousness individuals that are repentant and willing to submit their personal will and desires to G-d in covenant are rare - and that it is best to repent together to save a marriage rather than to "find another". But if one, being led by the spirit, does indeed find a repentant person willing to devote themselves to the eternal covenant of marriage - They have discovered a most sacred and blessed opportunity for both.

The Traveler

[kevieb]

If i understand your question about your daughter right--you seem to be wondering about her needing to be endowed to be sealed to you and your husband. She does not need to be endowed to be sealed to you and your husband.

As far as your question about what happens to you and the ex-wife if you both live worthy and he is sealed to both, but married to you---I think it is one of those things we don't have a lot of clear answers on---but traveler makes a very good point----the ex-wife broke her covenants with her husband (your fiance) Even though he would be sealed to both of you---i have a hard time believing that God would make someone spend eternity with someone they didn't want to be with--but then you can get in to what you said about the atonement taking care of the ex-wife since she is repentant--it can get very complicated to think about----I think that is why they tell us not to dwell on things that are impossible for us to understand.

I always try and remember that we are finite beings with finite minds and that there are infinite principles that our finite minds are incapable of understanding. That was a mouthful!

I DO understand your concern---I wish I could really be of help and have the perfect answer for you--but I don't.

My parents were sealed in the temple--I was born in the covenant--my father left my mother, my mother remarried an active church member, her sealing to my father was broken so she could be sealed to my step-father. I was told I would have to choose who I wanted to be sealed to--my father or my step-father---I was devastated and I sobbed. whoever told me that was wrong. I don't know how it will all come out in the end, but regardless of what happened with my parents, I am still born in the covenant and worthy of whatever blessings that entails.

[classylady]

As long as your daughter is under the age of 21, she will not need to have taken out her own endowments in order to be sealed to you and your future husband. She would be issued a limited-use recommend. If she is 21/or married then she would need to already have her own endowment.

My daughter-in-law chose to be sealed to her mother and her step-father. My DIL was already married to my son, and had already had taken out her own endowments when her mother married her step-father. It was so wonderful to see them sealed.

[classylady]

Originally Posted by SisterGraceLDS

Posting on LDS Gospel Discussion forum as I need genuine answers.

Am member in good standing with temple recommend. Have served in Primary since becoming active in church- and don't know much about 'adult' matters.

Never married, but engaged!!!! He is divorced (was sealed in temple to former wife). She left the marriage to be with other men and the marriage was broken, unable to be worked out- they divorced.

Here's my questions-

If a sister marries a man who has already been sealed before- what does that mean for the first wife and the second?

With regards to the atonement- the first wife so regrets her actions and has begged him to take her back. He has declined.

Even if we marry, won't the atonement take care of her- if she lives the rest of her life righteously and doesn't remarry- always wanting her exhusband and family back? So if I marry him - what happens to me?

Any insight you can offer would be helpful. And yes- I understand the Lord takes care of everything in the next life- that goes without saying. But I also believe anyone entering something going in- already knowing- they consent to whatever.... I want to be knowledgable and make informed decisions.

Thanks!

True, we will never be forced to be with someone we don't want in the next life. With the divorce the covenant has been broken. But, if both your husband and his ex-wife in the next life are worthy of the celestial kingdom, and she has not remarried in this life, she may perhaps ask to be with him again. If all has been forgiven, and if we're celestial worthy all will have been forgiven, even between ex-spouses, then would they want to be together again? That's a question you will need to come to terms with. Could you handle it, if in the next life they do choose to be together again? It may be that no matter what, your fiance' would never want to be with his ex again. I would question him on the matter, to see how he feels.

I'm currently in the same situation with being married and sealed to a man who was previously sealed to his ex-wife. We've been married/sealed for over 30 years. My husband is currently seeking a sealing cancellation from his ex. We have no idea yet if the cancellation will be granted. My DH just wants it over and done with and not have this hanging over his head.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Your question has to do with covenants and in particular with broken covenants and repentance.

1. When a covenant is broken the blessings of the covenant are lost and the covenant punishments or promised maledictions (sometimes called curses) come into play. It is important to know and understand that just as there are blessings for being loyal to covenants there are repercussions for breaking one's covenants. This is all in accord with the principles of Law and Justice.

When one breaks their covenants the lose the blessing and the repercussions of justice require a "punishment". In the case of breaking a temple covenant of marriage the blessings of being sealed by the power of the Holy Ghost are lost (forever). That is not a punishment but a loss of blessings.

The punishment is that a person is subject to Satan, his buffetings and controls. This is an awful state that is very damaging to a person's spirit and will bring about eternal damnation. The only escape is repentance. By repentance a person can through the mercies and atonement of Christ receive a remission from Satan and his imprisonment of the sole.

But repentance is a remission of sins and is not a restoration of lost blessings. It is only by obedience to the law that blessings can be obtained. Thus in order for the "first wife" to obtain the blessings of eternal marriage she must enter into that covenant anew -- in other words start over - which includes finding a partner willing to take her in the covenant of marriage.

It is my experience that righteousness individuals that are repentant and willing to submit their personal will and desires to G-d in covenant are rare - and that it is best to repent together to save a marriage rather than to "find another". But if one, being led by the spirit, does indeed find a repentant person willing to devote themselves to the eternal covenant of marriage - They have discovered a most sacred and blessed opportunity for both.

The Traveler

If this is true, then why does it still say on the man's records "previously sealed". And in the records the "first wife" is still officially sealed? If "she must enter the covenant anew" like you are saying then why is it still on the records and cannot be taken off?

I have a friend with which that has occurred, she even showed me the record when they went through tithing settlements and looking through their records, her husbands record says previously sealed.

[Seminarysnoozer]

In the Celestial Kingdom, who are we not sealed to?

[Gwen]

The sealing covenant is a web not a chain. There are covenants/potential blessings between the individual and god... covenants/potential blessings between the couple.... covenants/potential blessings with posterity. All blessings of the sealing (like any covenant) are contingent upon keeping the covenant.

The reason a clearance is done instead of a cancellation when a man remarries is so that the woman still has the opportunity to live the other parts (god and posterity) of her individual covenant.... all blessings are tied to the sealing so if it is canceled (aka annulled) then she would lose those opportunities at the blessings... a choice that must be made by her not because her ex remarried.

The blessing of living the covenant of the couple is the eternal marriage. If you divorce you are not living that covenant so you can't have the blessing. If you can't live the lower law (this life) then you don't have privilege of the higher (eternal). Long story short his ex will have no "claim" upon that part of their sealing in the next life (nor will he have any "claim upon her"). No one will be forced. If she cleans her life up and is worthy of an eternal marriage (but does not select that companion here) then she and god will have to work out who she is sealed to.... she can "claim" the blessing, not the person.

All that said there are those that have been sealed and stay married till death but did not live a righteous marriage and will not have an eternal partnership. The covenant is a promise with potential... nothing more... your fate isn't sealed by walking out of the temple, you must live the promises you made.

As for keeping track of previous sealings and such some of that is a matter of paperwork. If a man (or woman) gets sealed, divorced, then requests a second sealing... that's one thing. If he does this 3, 4, 5 times? They will probably stop granting them because the man has no idea what it means to be married or pick an eternal companion. If they don't keep a record then how will they know when they look up his records at the time his request is submitted. Yes you could make the argument that the spirit could tell them not to grant the sealing but god will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. We have means of making record keeping very easy, there is no excuse not to do it. It makes for a very easy filtering process so only those who are serious make it to the GA's desk and doesn't waste their time. Also the stake/bishop need to know if there are potentially other legal obligations the man may have. For example it is required you pay your child support to get a temple recommend, they need to know if that question is relevant to you.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Originally Posted by Gwen

The sealing covenant is a web not a chain. There are covenants/potential blessings between the individual and god... covenants/potential blessings between the couple.... covenants/potential blessings with posterity. All blessings of the sealing (like any covenant) are contingent upon keeping the covenant.

The reason a clearance is done instead of a cancellation when a man remarries is so that the woman still has the opportunity to live the other parts (god and posterity) of her individual covenant.... all blessings are tied to the sealing so if it is canceled (aka annulled) then she would lose those opportunities at the blessings... a choice that must be made by her not because her ex remarried.

The blessing of living the covenant of the couple is the eternal marriage. If you divorce you are not living that covenant so you can't have the blessing. If you can't live the lower law (this life) then you don't have privilege of the higher (eternal). Long story short his ex will have no "claim" upon that part of their sealing in the next life (nor will he have any "claim upon her"). No one will be forced. If she cleans her life up and is worthy of an eternal marriage (but does not select that companion here) then she and god will have to work out who she is sealed to.... she can "claim" the blessing, not the person.

All that said there are those that have been sealed and stay married till death but did not live a righteous marriage and will not have an eternal partnership. The covenant is a promise with potential... nothing more... your fate isn't sealed by walking out of the temple, you must live the promises you made.

As for keeping track of previous sealings and such some of that is a matter of paperwork. If a man (or woman) gets sealed, divorced, then requests a second sealing... that's one thing. If he does this 3, 4, 5 times? They will probably stop granting them because the man has no idea what it means to be married or pick an eternal companion. If they don't keep a record then how will they know when they look up his records at the time his request is submitted. Yes you could make the argument that the spirit could tell them not to grant the sealing but god will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. We have means of making record keeping very easy, there is no excuse not to do it. It makes for a very easy filtering process so only those who are serious make it to the GA's desk and doesn't waste their time. Also the stake/bishop need to know if there are potentially other legal obligations the man may have. For example it is required you pay your child support to get a temple recommend, they need to know if that question is relevant to you.

This is one of the best answers I have ever heard about this problem. Thanks Gwen!

It is interesting that it is only to this covenant though. Is there a record, for example, how many times one is re-baptized, if they fell away from the church and were to be baptized again .... does it say on the record "previously baptized"?