What is sin?

[Traveler]

What is sin (both by intent of the defination of sin and the extension of sin) and why do you think G-d does not want us to sin?

The Traveler

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

I've thought of sin as anything that moves us further away from God. I figure God sent us here to sin, since they tell me we're all sinners, and He's in charge. I figure He wants us to choose not to sin, because in doing so, we move closer to what will bring us eternal life, which is in our best interests.

[Anddenex]

Our Heavenly Father's sole purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of his children. When one of his spirit children sin it creates problems:

1. We can no longer live in his presence.
2. The more we sin the more the Savior suffered
3. We deny our true character as sons and daughters

The Glory of God is intelligence, and intelligence is light and truth. Thus, in some aspects sin removes "light and truth" the glory of God from an individual spirit.

Our brightness, our glory, is dependent on our cleanliness, the amount of light and truth which a person exudes.

What is sin? Sin is any act which expels or repels light and truth, the glory of God. It extension, if I am understanding you correctly, would be darkness -- in some cases it leads to pure ignorance. I think the Dark Ages are a good example of sin, and its extension.

Sin, then removes love, because we know the greatest character trait our Heavenly Father exudes is "charity." Which is interesting that part of the prophecies in our future is that the love of man will wax cold. The light and truth will no longer shine.

These are my first thoughts.

[applepansy]

Sin is anything that moves us away from our Heavenly Father's presence.

I don't believe Heavenly Father sent us here to sin. He sent us here to be tested. He knew we would sin, but he didn't and doesn't want us to sin. We are here to learn to control our physical bodies so that when we are resurrected and reach the Celestial Kingdom we don't misuse them.

Its a test. Sort of like a Driver's license test. Right now we have our learner's permit.

[Traveler]

I would hope that we would think on this a little deeper. If sin is anything that moves us away from G-d's presents then being born (coming to the earth and receiving a mortal body that can die is a sin - So then Jesus did sin?

Why can't we be in G-d's presents if we sin? Is not G-d all powerful and able to "fix" it so that some little less harmless sin could be in his presents - So then is G-d not really all powerful?

The suffering of Jesus ended a long time ago with his death - So how does my sin today cause him to suffer more? And his suffering was already infinite. How can he suffer more? Infinite plus anything is still the same infinite???? Was Jesus’ suffering and atonement not really infinite?

I think Anddenex came almost close in his #3 statement when he said “We deny our true character as sons and daughters” but I am not sure he understand why and if there is a difference between our character and our intelligence that is made manifested?

I have been around enough that you should know I am LDS and believe strongly in LDS doctrine. I am also a scientist and engineer and like to “test” concepts of posters to see if they really understand. I think some kind of have partial ideas about attributes of sin but do not seem to really understand why sin is such a bad thing.

Anyone care to try again or dig a little deeper with me? What is sin?

The Traveler

[Windseeker]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I like the scripture that says something like - to them that knows to do good and don't - to them it is sin.

[skalenfehl]

My definition of sin is knowing God's will and doing anything that is contrary to God's will. Yes, he gives us free will, but if our will is not in alignment with His, we sin, no matter how slight. He does not turn to the right or to the left, but walks in a straight, strait path. Not following this path constitutes sin and puts us in danger of being overtaken and destroyed by the adversary.

[Anddenex]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I would hope that we would think on this a little deeper. If sin is anything that moves us away from G-d's presents then being born (coming to the earth and receiving a mortal body that can die is a sin - So then Jesus did sin?

I don't believe anyone was suggesting that solely being out of the presence of God is equal to sin. There is a difference to no longer be in God's presence as a result of sin versus merely coming to earth.

Originally Posted by Traveler

Why can't we be in G-d's presents if we sin? Is not G-d all powerful and able to "fix" it so that some little less harmless sin could be in his presents - So then is G-d not really all powerful?

Now this is a great question. The same question is why was a Savior then needed if God is all powerful and could he not just forgive us without a Savior.

Sin removes us from God's presence, otherwise there would be no need for three kingdoms of glory.

The kingdoms are described as glory, each specifying the type of individual we chose to be. I find the words of Isaiah intriguing when he says, "The show of their countenance doth witness against them..." This implies sin must change our very nature, our intelligence.

Sin is against the nature of our intelligence, which is light and truth. Light cleaveth unto light, darkness cleaveth unto darkness. Sin is then when we choose darkness rather than light, evil rather than good. Thus our nature, our intelligence is filled with a lesser light, or as some of our brothers and sisters, they have no light, no glory at all.

Thus, it is plausible that sin removes us from God because we are no longer the same glory, the same light, thus we need a Savior. Through him, we become perfect, full of light and truth - assuming we obey him and keep covenants.

Originally Posted by Traveler

The suffering of Jesus ended a long time ago with his death - So how does my sin today cause him to suffer more? And his suffering was already infinite. How can he suffer more? Infinite plus anything is still the same infinite???? Was Jesus’ suffering and atonement not really infinite?

This is a question dear brother you would need to have a conversation with President Howard W. Hunter who once declared, and by which I was remembering, "A study of the life of Christ and a testimony of his reality is something each of us should seek... When temptations come, as they surely will, an understanding of the Savior's agony in Gethsemane and his eventual death on the cross will be a reminder to you to avoid any activity that would cause the Savior more pain." (Teachings of Howard W. Hunter pay. 31, emphasis added)

I would present the same idea, any time a temptation surely comes our way and we do not heed or entertain the temptation, or we do not sin, the Savior that day, that time, didn't need to shed a drop for me. I really like President Hunter's words here.

[skalenfehl]

Emphasis in your quote added by me:

Originally Posted by Traveler

I would hope that we would think on this a little deeper. If sin is anything that moves us away from G-d's presents then being born (coming to the earth and receiving a mortal body that can die is a sin - So then Jesus did sin?

Why can't we be in G-d's presents if we sin? Is not G-d all powerful and able to "fix" it so that some little less harmless sin could be in his presents - So then is G-d not really all powerful?

The suffering of Jesus ended a long time ago with his death - So how does my sin today cause him to suffer more? And his suffering was already infinite. How can he suffer more? Infinite plus anything is still the same infinite???? Was Jesus’ suffering and atonement not really infinite?

I think Anddenex came almost close in his #3 statement when he said “We deny our true character as sons and daughters” but I am not sure he understand why and if there is a difference between our character and our intelligence that is made manifested?

I have been around enough that you should know I am LDS and believe strongly in LDS doctrine. I am also a scientist and engineer and like to “test” concepts of posters to see if they really understand. I think some kind of have partial ideas about attributes of sin but do not seem to really understand why sin is such a bad thing.

Anyone care to try again or dig a little deeper with me? What is sin?

The Traveler

You don't quite understand. Let's look at an exchange by a subtly deceptive Zeezrom to Amulek in the land of Ammonihah:

Alma 11:34 And Zeezrom said again: Shall he save his people in their sins? And Amulek answered and said unto him: I say unto you he shall not, for it is impossible for him to deny his word.

35 Now Zeezrom said unto the people: See that ye remember these things; for he said there is but one God; yet he saith that the Son of God shall come, but he shall not save his people—as though he had authority to command God.

36 Now Amulek saith again unto him: Behold thou hast lied, for thou sayest that I spake as though I had authority to command God because I said he shall not save his people in their sins.

37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

Helaman explains it more clearly to his two sons, Nephi and Lehi:

Helaman5:10 And remember also the words which Amulek spake unto Zeezrom, in the city of Ammonihah; for he said unto him that the Lord surely should come to redeem his people, but that he should not come to redeem them in their sins, but to redeem them FROM their sins.

The entire point is, if you do not repent, you will not be saved IN your sins. You cannot be forgiven, sanctified and justified. This is the law and God is bound by law or else He ceases to be God. Finally, there is no "harmless" sin, no matter how little.

[james12]

Here is one way to view sin which I think has merit. Joseph Smith presented this teaching in 1834. It can be found in TPJS starting on p. 49. I will summarize in my own words.

Imagine a country of the world. It has an organized and established government with certain laws by which, more or less, the innocent are protected and the guilty punished. If these laws are just, it is only right that the guilty be punished to protect the innocent. It may also be that such punishment will bring a remorse of conscience and a change in behavior.

Generally speaking a man of decent character may freely travel from such a country to others in the world, be it France, Japan, or Mexico and keep the laws of that new country. By these laws the people are governed. By these laws order is upheld and freedom is generally maintained.

But imagine now, a government and kingdom that does not span a portion of the globe but instead encompasses the known Universe. By it, complete order, equity and harmony are maintained. By it, worlds are upheld. It's laws are so fair and its freedoms so great that one must be instructed first before even entering this kingdom. For if a person were not of a certain character he would surely destroy the freedom and happiness of another who lived there. Moreover, in order to even conduct such a government, administrators must be possessed with similar principles and dispositions. This then is the Kingdom of Heaven. We in our current state cannot even hope to set foot there.

In the beginning man lived in this kingdom but he departed from these laws and refused to be governed by them. Consequently he was sent out of the kingdom. However, he was not left alone, God in his mercy and wisdom provided certain lesser laws that, if kept, would build on each other and one day bring the man back into this kingdom. To live contrary to these laws is sin. However, even these laws were so far above man in his fallen condition that he could never hope by our his own effort to return to this kingdom. Consequently a plan was instituted whereby fallen citizens could be forgiven of their offenses and again obtain an inheritance there.

This of course is the Plan of Salvation with Christ being the center point. By it we may may one day again enter the Celestial Kingdom.