Becoming Gods? Is this true?

[WillowTheWhisp]

I'm not sure what you mean there. How we can become more Christ-like without being like Christ?

[Elgama]

Originally Posted by Malachi7

Actually, I don't find your beliefs hard to understand. Others here have done a fine job explaining. It's that I disbelieve what you believe as Christian theology. It's too far removed from Christian theology to be genuine, imo.



I'm in your house as a guest to investigate. I think you'd agree that if we want to know what Mormons believe we should ask a Mormon. If disagreement with LDS conclusions must be considered "tearing down your faith" then what's a guy to do? *shrug*

I do indeed share my faith with others. I'm a missionary every day. I'm also an amateur apologist. I hope you won't be offended that based on what I've been informed of here causes me grave concern.

I was actually referring to the time Christian Websites spend our faith - to me it doesn't matter if its that far from Christianity as long as its what God has in mind for me

I came to know Jesus as my personal Savior by revelation. (You like it, don't you. :-)) I know the Bible is the Word of God and can be trusted because since having placed my faith in it the evidence only continues to support that decision of long ago. We know where Jerusalem is. Jericho too. 'Nuff said?

See thats how I know the Book of Mormon is true - through revelation from the same source, yes we know where Jerusalem and Jericho is because they have had continous occupation there are plenty of other places in historical records we know exist but can't find. I was involved in the excavation of at least 2, for all we know we do know where Zarahemla etc is we just know what to call it or it could be buried beneath a part of New York etc.

-Charley

[ztodd]

Don't worry about becoming a god. We're all pretty far away from that end I'd say. We have plenty of other things to focus on first.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by Snow

>>>Originally Posted by Malachi7
Do you believe the concept of Eternal Progression is a Christian belief?



Ah, then your understanding is not yet complete. Eternal Progression is in fact a Christian belief:

Let me start by not bluffing, and just admit that I did not read the question carefully. I thought that Malachi7 was asking me if I agreed with eternal premortal existence, since that had been my topic. Nevertheless, I thought my response fit, so did not bother editing my answer.

If "eternal progression," means that we will become godly, godlike, glorified beyond our imagination, and that we shall rule and reign with Christ, then I can agree. We literally shall continue to progress eternally.

On the other hand, I believe that human creation was done ex nihilo, and that we shall remain forever essentially distinct and subordinate from the Father. Further, that Jesus is the only God the Son.

[a-train]

Originally Posted by ztodd

Don't worry about becoming a god. We're all pretty far away from that end I'd say. We have plenty of other things to focus on first.

I'm afraid we Mormons are the perpetuation of the confusion. We continue to pretend men can become gods when the scriptures nor the prophets have told us this. The scriptures say we ARE gods. We cannot become something we already are.

We must understand that most of the world believes that there is one species of god, another of man, another of angels, and another of devils. This is NOT the LDS view. Gods, angels, devils, and men are all the same species.

We need to stop perpetuating the false notion that men are a certain species that can be raised to a higher species, the species of god.

ztodd, don't take this as a rebuke, I know you mean no harm. But statements like 'when we become gods...' or 'if we become gods...' which are often used in Mormondom, need to be refrained from. They give a false impression.

What is at the core of confusion is that Mormons use the phrase 'becoming a god' to refer to the taking up of whatever great responsibilities are rested on those saved and exalted in the presence of the LORD. The scriptural term for this is 'exaltation'. 'Becoming a god' is not in the scriptures.

I hope that we will understand the semantics of this and avoid confusion.

-a-train

[JonboySquarepants]

a-train, just one correction i have is in d and c. i don't think it is incorrect to say "when we/they become gods..." because d and c 132:19-21 says just that.
-----
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
-----
i don't see this as 'gods' being a certain species. mormons believe that God is a man. mankind is the species of the gods in mormonism. through this passage i see 'gods' as a level of glory, and exaltation is that glory.

just my thoughts.

[minivan]

LDS people believe in "exaltation" which is to become a god. I don't know why people, even within the church finds that so touchy. It's not as if we "transform" into some other race or species, it means we become so enlightened, so powerfull, and so much like or Father that we reach the same level as he is.

[JonboySquarepants]

i think some people just don't like how that sounds and thus try to make it mean something else; something that they believe.

[VisionOfLehi]

Minivan, thank you for that post! That verse is one I had in the back of the mind, but totally forgot about otherwise!


20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

This here defines what we mean by "gods." It means we will have attained everlasting life. (As as D&C 19 defines eternal and everlasting, we know that this also means life rewarded by Heavenly Father and the Lord. That means it is indeed a great gift!) We have become the joint-heirs.

Shortly after the verse in D&C 132 we get a definition about what eternal life is:

24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

Here we read more about exaltation!

Doctrine and Covenants 76

The part I would like to emphasize is this verse:

69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.



There has been talk about the Exalted, those who have become gods, having their own spirit children. But, true or not (I haven't yet been taught that yet, so I'm not sure!), there's one thing to remember. NONE OF THIS IS BY OUR OWN DOING. All the powers is through faith in Christ and by the power of Heavenly Father.

Even Christ acknowledged that it was not by Him!

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.



Emphasis added on all verses.

[a-train]

But do you see the semantic confusion our friends are suffering from? They think that Mormons believe that men, if righteous, will be transformed to a higher species of being, the species of God. Their understanding of this species, the species of God, is that there is only a single Being of that species and that it is totally impossible for a man to be transformed into that. It is to them, the only eternal species, and man to them is not eternal.

When they hear a Mormon say, 'Well, we can become gods.' They are not hearing what we are saying. They are thinking of something totally different than what we are intending. We are departing from the language of the scriptures and confusion is resulting.

'Exaltation' does refer to the placing upon man the work and glory of Celestialization in the presence of the Father and the inheritance of all things. It does refer to the work of gods. But it in no way refers to taking a being of a different species than God and transforming him/her into that species. It does not infer any notion that we are not gods now.

If we tell people we can become gods, we are saying that we are not gods now. No, we are not exalted. But we are the species of god. We are gods and children of the Most High.

D&C 132 speaks of the different stations of gods and angels, but it demonstrates plainly that these stations are filled by human beings, especially in verses 16 and 17. 17 says: 'For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.'

As we pass from estate to estate, we are gods and children of the Most High. It is only when we fail to progress that our station is henceforth not godhood. But, our species is always the same.

We are celestial beings who have come from the presence of the LORD to this telestial world. We are his children. We are heirs of God. We were not first created men, who can become gods. We were created gods who became men, just as did our LORD.

Our first parents entered the garden as Celestial beings, with immortal bodies and in the Presence of the Father. They were eternally sealed. It was the fall that created the 'natural' man. Our progress to exaltation, is like that of our first parents, it is not a climb from our original state to a new one, but a return to our pre-fallen state.

As close as D&C 132 comes to infering that we are not yet gods, it does not expressly say so. We must be mindful of this and especially mindful of the perceptions and understanding of our fellows.

-a-train