Becoming Gods? Is this true? - Page 21

Dear434 · #**201** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIRDpersonviewer

Examining both sides of any story is sometimes beneficial and sometimes it is not. In relation to the revealed word(anything testified by the power of the Holy Spirit). There is no need to examine a second source. Why? Because it is the only source of revelation from God. However in temporal or physical things, there is often more than one view. Speculation can have more than one view. So can opinions. However, when we deal with the truth, there is only truth. Truth is truth because it is truth. God reveals truth by revelation. He reveals by the power of the Holy Ghost. Why take a second look at a truth(for the purpose of knowing if it is really true) if you have been born witness that it is true? God does not lie.

Well, I can most certainly agree with that!

Dear434 · #**202** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rameumptom

Well, could you explain the three men who visited Abraham, who were also angels? Two of these went on to visit Lot and destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.

How about Jesus at the Mount of Transfiguration, where Moses and Elias appeared as angels? Peter was so impressed, he wanted to build a booth for all three.

And then there's the Jewish tradition that the man/prophet Enoch was Metatron, the archangel.

Traditionally, angels and men were the same substance as God. Different? Of course. But the same substance. I guess my three examples should help to see that.

With all due respect, I disagree that your examples helped clarify anything. If you wouldn't mind, could you please quote your sources and not paraphrase what you think they say. Just because an angel can appear in the form of a man does not make them human. God, imho, is not a human being but that didn't stop Him from taking on the form of a man in the person of Jesus Christ. I realize you see things differently, but to me, Man is finite and limited. God is not. I suppose one similarity we (Man) have with angels is that they (like us) are finite creatures as well. Unlike us, I don't believe angels have free will (or as Mormons call it "free agency").

Dear434 · #**203** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIRDpersonviewer

D&C 129 1-7
1 THERE are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

I know that was your opinion, but I noticed the conversation between you and hemidakota and I figured this clarified what he was saying and what we know.

How can an angel be a resurrected being if they haven't been born on earth yet?

Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Dear434 · #**204** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rameumptom

3rdPersonViewer, thanks for reminding us that Jesus is known as the Great Angel of the Presence. Margaret Barker discusses this extensively in her book, the Great Angel.

So, if Jesus is an angel, and Moses and Elias are angels, and Enoch, then I guess angels, Gods and men are of the same substance!

I will have to see if I can find Margaret Barker's book. Sounds interesting. I assume you have this book? And if so, does she say that Jesus is "The Angel of the LORD" spoken of in the Old Testament?

Hemidakota · #**205** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dear434

How can an angel be a resurrected being if they haven't been born on earth yet?

Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Perhaps a sneak beyond the veil will reveal the truth. Hows your faith lately?

Thirdperson is correct.

Dear434 · #**206** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Perhaps a sneak beyond the veil will reveal the truth. Hows your faith lately?

Thirdperson is correct.

So you disagree with Hebrews 1:14?

Hemidakota · #**207** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 01:32 PM

Read D&C 78:88...

The term ministering spirits embraces all angelic beings: whether spirits or resurrected personages

Dear434 · #**208** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Read D&C 78:88...

The term ministering spirits embraces all angelic beings: whether spirits or resurrected personages

I'll take the words of Jesus over Joseph any day.

"And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet." Luke 24:36-40

ETA: BTW, I couldn't locate D&C 78:88.

Hemidakota · #**209** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 01:43 PM

Sorry, bad vision when reading: D&C 76:87-88

a-train · #**210** (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr T

Hey Train,

Wow-a lot has been added since the last time I logged in. I'm not quite sure but it seems that your assumption of the existence of the Earth (possibly that it is eternal) is leading to a misunderstanding of this issue and God. I don't see that as an issue relating to traversing an infinite. I believe God has always existed and created the world and time. It is not a progression of events/being from all of eternity such as the concept of god upon god forever back at infinitum. God is the uncaused cause and as such-started it all by the creation. Maybe a review of the logical error of traversing an infinite is needed but I don't have time to review it now. The addition of God having parents does change the situation in my mind. That is the whole issue with the traversing an infinite.

No, there is no assumption that the earth is eternal. We both believe that Jesus is an Eternal Being who existed infinitely before His birth to the Virgin Mary (unless I am mistaken). So, Jesus is both Eternal AND has Parents. This is, of course, because His birth to Mary was not His beginning, but only another chapter in His infinite existance. Isn't that correct?

-a-train