Becoming Gods? Is this true?

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

I do love FAIR and what it provides as reasonable sound judgment to many answers from the critics but someone needs to address the Prophet Joseph Smith remarks and not President Young.

"...the curse is not yet taken off from the sons of Canaan, neither will be it is affected by as great a power as caused it to come; and the people who interfere the least with its purposes of God in this matter, will come under the least condemnation before Him; and those who are determined to purse a course, which shows an opposition, and a feverish restlessness against the degrees of the Lord, will learn when perhaps it is too late for their own good, that God can do His own work, without the aid of those who are not dictated by His council." [Documentary History of the Church pg438]

Simple. In Joseph's day, it was believed that blacks came from the line of Canaan, and that the curse imposed upon them by Noah was that of slavery. Nothing in Joseph's statement references a ban on priesthood. Joseph knew that it would take a huge effort to end slavery, which is why he prophesied of the Civil War (D&C 87) and that it was based upon slavery.

[Hemidakota]

Going back reading it and several others journals by Joseph, I do note that he wanted to end slavery but the curse has nothing to do with slavery but more of the banning the priesthood from the children Canaan.

[rameumptom]

I do not read Joseph as believing in a priesthood ban on blacks. He ordained several blacks to the priesthood, including Elijah Abel, and never restricted these men. Only later in Utah, were they restricted by Brigham Young.

[Hemidakota]

I am aware of those two were ordained but even Joseph Smith drank beer on occasion prior to receiving the WoW revelation. I will need to do some digging to look at the dates and compare. If you are right, I stand corrected on this subject.

[rameumptom]

Joseph Smith also drank wine and tea AFTER receiving the WoW. Benjamin F. Johnson was one of Joseph's best friends in Nauvoo-era, and Johnson mentions drinking and discussing the gospel on several occasions. The WoW was not a commandment until Brigham Young made it one in the Utah era (I think around 1857).

[Hemidakota]

Hmm...I did not know that one. Thanks!

I do think it was a commandment when Joseph received it and too live by its principles that time forward. Even myself, I have failed at times when receiving personal or calling position revelation and not living up it. Now, it doesn't take another Prophet enact something received by the original hands but to reinforce it as President Young did. We still see this principle today – reinforce early commandments. I can say, we all have weakness...even Joseph had his shares seeing you’re posting.

Getting back to the problems of 'Curse' [children of Canaan], Joseph did not translate the BOA until the early 40s. This present an open floor argument to his personal knowledge in regard to this subject was most likely zilch. Considering it was Joseph that allows Elijah Abel to be ordained to the priesthood, it was done prior to BOA. Those received the priesthood after; there is no evidence that Joseph Smith authorized new ordinations in the 1840s.

As to the WoW and BoA, we learn by the hand of God through revelations and hopefully live its principle.

[rameumptom]

New ordinations didn't occur for blacks, primarily because there were so few that had joined the Church. Had God wished to have a ban on the priesthood, he could have commanded Joseph to not ordain Elijah Abel, et al.
Even Brigham Young recognized it as a valid ordination, sending Elijah Abel on a mission. However, he did keep him from attending the St George temple when it was completed. (Abel was on a mission when the Nauvoo endowments were occurring, and so did not attend at that time).

[Hemidakota]

That was a speculator remark concerning Joseph Smith and banning. If that being the case in using your assumption, He would do the same banning prior, when Joseph was teaching the brethren in the upper room of his house but it was Emma's complaint [WoW] of the smoke and chewing tobacco spit that brought about the WoW.

That is not how God deals with His chosen ones. Line upon line...precept upon precept. He allows them operate in a learning and choice [agency] type environment.

Joseph most likely did it out of pure ignorance and his love for fellow brethren. Considering what Joseph Smith already ordained Elijah, you now have two choices as the following prophet, 1] allow him to continue, or 2] revoke the ordinance. We simply don't know if President Young was influence by those across the veil for a continuous of Abel's priesthood ordinance.

Reading up on historical facts, there were several others who receive priesthood ordinance from the 40s to latter 1800s.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

That was a speculator remark concerning Joseph Smith and banning. If that being the case in using your assumption, He would do the same banning prior, when Joseph was teaching the brethren in the upper room of his house but it was Emma's complaint [WoW] of the smoke and chewing tobacco spit that brought about the WoW.

That is not how God deals with His chosen ones. Line upon line...precept upon precept. He allows them operate in a learning and choice [agency] type environment.

Joseph most likely did it out of pure ignorance and his love for fellow brethren. Considering what Joseph Smith already ordained Elijah, you now have two choices as the following prophet, 1] allow him to continue, or 2] revoke the ordinance. We simply don't know if President Young was influence by those across the veil for a continuous of Abel's priesthood ordinance.

Reading up on historical facts, there were several others who receive priesthood ordinance from the 40s to latter 1800s.

We have statements from Brigham Young that directly deal with his view on the curse of Cain and a priesthood ban. In 32 years, I have never found anything on Joseph Smith discussing a priesthood ban or imposing such a ban on anyone.

Most LDS scholars I know agree that Joseph was not involved in any priesthood ban, regardless of whether he thought the blacks were cursed. And on those scholars that think Joseph felt they were cursed, it was over slavery, not priesthood.

[Justice]

Malachi7,

This is a simple interpretation issue. Either you believe God when He says we are His children or you don't.

Where has there ever been a child that could not be like their parents?

Ask yourself this: Why all this effort (creation, fall of Adam, Atonement of His Only Begotten Son, prophets, apostles...) if there wasn't something eternal at stake?

What do you think heaven is like? Will it be a place where all the believes go and fall on their knees and worship God for eternity? Well, that might be acceptable for a pet, like a dog or cat, but for your children? Your offspring? God is perfect while you are imperfect, yet even you want the most for your children and would deny them nothing that is good for them.

You do bring up a very valid point. Most of modern Christianity does not teach these things. If our Church had it's beginning the way we claim it did, then we have the answer why modern Christianity does not teach these things.

You need to trust me on what I'm about to say so that you can get past this and move onto something much more important. It's not very important that you believe that we become like God. What is important is that you believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet called by God Himself to reorganize His Church on the earth. The Church Christ organized was lost and fell through apostasy. The only way it could be reorganized and put on the earth again was by direct revelation from heaven. Man was incapable of finding it all on his own.

Don't you see the confusion that the Bible by itself causes? Look at modern Christianity for a second. How many different beliefs and interpretations are there? No doubt, there are countless differences. What was needed was a restoration of truth. Truth, unsullied and pure, from beyond the veil of mortality was the only way man could be sure of any truth. Since His Church was lost, no man could find it.

There is only one way to know if what I'm saying is true. The greatest fruit of Joseph Smith's labors was the Book of Mormon. I suggest you find out about it, learn about what it is and where it came from, then read it with genuine curiosity and determination to know if the book is really what he said it is.

If you really want to know the answer to the questions you're asking, this is the only way you'll get them. So, I suggest you stop everything, get a copy and read it while praying with full purpose of heart, not doubting, to know it is true. Because if it is true, then it's the most remarkable thing to come forth on earth in the last 2,000 years. If it's not, then the questions and answers we're discuss here aren't worth your time.