Becoming Gods? Is this true?

[Malachi7]

Originally Posted by skalenfehl

Exactly my point. He overlooked or ignored my other points, though. I recognize the difference between nit-pickers and sincere investigators.

Actually, I read every word. I didn't comment in favor of staying on topic with my original question regarding LDS beliefs regarding the specifics of your beliefs. You added much in regards to human deification (which I don't accept) but you spent little time regarding the details of the future state of eternal families and what's known as "Eternal Progression."

Why?

I understand volume upon volume has been written on the subject.

The bottom line is what we believe is founded on revelation of our modern day prophets and not "Christian teachers", which could be compared to the Jewish scholars who knew the law, but did not understand the law.

If we had lived in Christ's time or before, we'd have other prophets like, ironic to this topic, Malachi, who's purpose was to correct the lax religious and social behavior of the Israelites at the time. He told the people of their wrong doings (robbing God by not paying their tithes, priests not teaching well, divorce, etc).

Each prophet had a different message for the people in their particular time. Moses led the Isrealites out of Egypt, received the 10 commandments, the law of Moses, etc. Noah warned people to repent lest they be wiped out, and so on. Our prophets of today receive revelation pertaining to our times and our circumstances, including further revelations about the doctrine of salvation and exaltation. The warnings of our day include things like debt/living within our means, food storage/emergency preparedness, pornography, etc.)

Christian teachers of other faiths have only the Bible as far as it is translated correctly to interpret the definition of Christianity, teach basic gospel principles like baptism, but do not have the authority to baptize unto salvation, or to act in God's name, etc. I could go on...

[crytsprospect]

Everyone has tried to accommodate you and answer your question. Did you just want to argue or what.

[Elgama]

Originally Posted by Malachi7

Sir, if you're telling me that it is by revelation that I should believe you when my Bible tells me nothing of men becoming Gods and then having children that hope to become Gods, I hope you'll understand that my Christian upbringing cause me to question your sense of revelation.

I mean no disrespect.

It's just that what you're telling me goes directly against what our Bible state.

We are creation of God and only God is God. We're not nor will we ever be.

I hope you'll understand when I say that, based on what you've told me, I understand why I've found so many websites written by Christians about your religion. What you're telling me here is very different from the message of Christian pastors, teachers, theologians, etc. Very different.

Malachi this is your beliefs of course you find ours hard to understand they are different to yours, you can never truly understand why another believes what they do, I personally am always rather bemused by people who spend so much time pulling down my faith instead of teaching me of their own (shouldn't the time spent rubbishing my Faith be better directed in missionary work for your own). I don't understand how someone can be a normal sort of Christian it makes little sense to me, science shows the bible has holes in it (so I already need faith to believe in the bible), and quite frankly I struggle with the Patriachs and until I became LDS Paul was a little up himself. How do you know the Bible is the Word of God in the first place?, I find this curious as I was not entirely Christian before I became LDS, what lead you to the Bible over the Quran, or the Vedas or why did you choose Christ instead of becoming an Orthodox Jew?

-Charley

[Malachi7]

Originally Posted by Snow

Yes, I understand why you find it hard to believe since until last night you didn't even know that it was a belief with theologians throughout history, the orthodox tradition, the early Church Fathers and the bible itself.

It's odd that with all the names I gave you would focus on CS Lewis, - instead of the many, many Church fathers. But here is one thing that Lewis said:

"There are no ordinary people," writes Lewis. Rather, we "live in a society of possible gods and goddesses. The dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship."

In The Screwtape Letters Lewis has his devil say, "the obedience which the Enemy [i.e., God] demands of men is quite a different thing [from his own Satanic goals]. One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and his service is not. o. mere propaganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself--creatures whose life, on a miniature scale, will be qualitatively like his own."

Regardless, of what Lewis thought, of more interest is what the early Christians taught and believed, and how their beliefs were ground in the New and Old Testament.

Why is it hard to accept as a Christian belief if Christians taught and believed it going back 2000 years?

Perhaps, now having an idea of just how widespread and important the idea of theosis or divinization - what The Church of Jesus Christ calls exaltation - is, you are now hung up on some specifics, which, from your last post, are:

1. That divinization is restricted to faithful members of (what we believe to be) God's sole authorized Church

2. Families are eternal

3. Resurrected and divinized beings possess physical bodies

4. Those physical bodies occupy some physical space

5. We along with Christ, share in the Father's glory and become joint heirs of all that the father has, become divinized and thus share in God's creative powers.

Can you tell me just what, specifically, about any or all of those you labor with?

Snow, I've read every word and it's obvious we'll never convince each other. I'll just settle for asking what Mormons believe and why. You told me.

May I ask this: where are these things taught? In Sunday School (priesthood lessons?) at your wards?

[Malachi7]

Originally Posted by Elgama

Malachi this is your beliefs of course you find ours hard to understand they are different to yours, you can never truly understand why another believes what they do,

Actually, I don't find your beliefs hard to understand. Others here have done a fine job explaining. It's that I disbelieve what you believe as Christian theology. It's too far removed from Christian theology to be genuine, imo.

I personally am always rather bemused by people who spend so much time pulling down my faith instead of teaching me of their own (shouldn't the time spent rubbishing my Faith be better directed in missionary work for your own).

I'm in your house as a guest to investigate. I think you'd agree that if we want to know what Mormons believe we should ask a Mormon. If disagreement with LDS conclusions must be considered "tearing down your faith" then what's a guy to do? *shrug*

I do indeed share my faith with others. I'm a missionary every day. I'm also an amateur apologist. I hope you won't be offended that based on what I've been informed of here causes me grave concern.

I don't understand how someone can be a normal sort of Christian it makes little sense to me, science shows the bible has holes in it (so I already need faith to believe in the bible), and quite frankly I struggle with the Patriachs and until I became LDS Paul was a little up himself. How do you know the Bible is the Word of God in the first place?, I find this curious as I was not entirely Christian before I became LDS, what lead you to the Bible over the Quran, or the Vedas or why did you choose Christ instead of becoming an Orthodox Jew?

-Charley

I came to know Jesus as my personal Savior by revelation. (You like it, don't you. :-)) I know the Bible is the Word of God and can be trusted because since having placed my faith in it the evidence only continues to support that decision of long ago. We know where Jerusalem is. Jericho too. 'Nuff said?

[Malachi7]

Originally Posted by crytsprospect

Everyone has tried to accommodate you and answer your question. Did you just want to argue or what.

Yes, I will argue (but not fight) with you about what you consider to be Christian theology.

As will you. Will you not provide an argument; a basis for defense of your faith? It appears you too will argue.

Good. I think we should state our views and back them up.

LDS defense thus far has been this: we believe by revelation of our prophets.

My defense thus far has been this: I'll stick with my Bible on this one.

LDS response: We believe the Bible.

Me: Can't find Eternal Progression in the Bible nor the Book of Mormon.

LDS: Revelation.

Me: It contradicts the Bible.

LDS: Nope.

Me: Well, y'see, yeah it does.

And so it goes.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by Malachi7

Sir, if you're telling me that it is by revelation that I should believe you when my Bible tells me nothing of men becoming Gods and then having children that hope to become Gods, I hope you'll understand that my Christian upbringing cause me to question your sense of revelation.

I mean no disrespect.

It's just that what you're telling me goes directly against what our Bible state.

We are creation of God and only God is God. We're not nor will we ever be.

I hope you'll understand when I say that, based on what you've told me, I understand why I've found so many websites written by Christians about your religion. What you're telling me here is very different from the message of Christian pastors, teachers, theologians, etc. Very different.

Malachi, since you and I are in the same camp, if you're trying to grasp the LDS doctrine of eventual godhood, you'll want to also look at the doctrine of premortal existence. IMHO, these two teachings compliment each other. If I'm not mistaken, you'll have an easier time finding material on premortal existence at the lds.org site you keep getting referred to. The nutshell version is that we al have an eternal existence prior to creation--though as some type of intelligence, not with bodies.

I'll also recommend an excellent interfaith discussion for you--the book, How Wide the Divide: an Mormon and Evangelical in Conversation. The writers are both professors, one from BYU, the other from Denver Seminary. It's about 200 pages, and gives a respectful, yet clear discussion of differences that are very real, as well as some areas that have been overemphasized in the past.

[Malachi7]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Malachi, since you and I are in the same camp, if you're trying to grasp the LDS doctrine of eventual godhood, you'll want to also look at the doctrine of premortal existence. IMHO, these two teachings compliment each other. If I'm not mistaken, you'll have an easier time finding material on premortal existence at the lds.org site you keep getting referred to. The nutshell version is that we al have an eternal existence prior to creation--though as some type of intelligence, not with bodies.

I'll also recommend an excellent interfaith discussion for you--the book, How Wide the Divide: an Mormon and Evangelical in Conversation. The writers are both professors, one from BYU, the other from Denver Seminary. It's about 200 pages, and gives a respectful, yet clear discussion of differences that are very real, as well as some areas that have been overemphasized in the past.

Thanks.

Are you non-LDS?

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by Malachi7

Thanks.

Are you non-LDS?

I'm an Assemblies of God prison chaplain.

[Malachi7]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

I'm an Assemblies of God prison chaplain.

Do you believe the concept of Eternal Progression is a Christian belief?