Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

[Over43]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Over, I'd suggest that Dawkins is wrong about religion. It is not the inspiration or guiding force for wars and evil in the world. Rather, wicked men use religion to their own ends. Faith itself is nuetral. It can be used for great good or ill. (I'm not saying God is nuetral, but rather 'religion').

It is perhaps true that Christianity has been manipulated for evil over the centuries. However, in less than 100 years, humanism (or atheism, if you will) was misused to kill tens of millions in Maoist China and Stalinist Russia--not to mention the death of one-third of Cambodia's population in the killing fields of anti-religious fervor.

I think he is fundementally wrong also. I do think he does have a valid point about the violence of religion in the past (and present), but I do not think he is being intellectually honest when he plays one hand against religion, and then ignores the scientific communities culpability in many scientific "disasters". Whether it be a purposeful "attack" on mankind (Hiroshima) or accidental (Chernobol). I think, bottom line, Dawkins suffers from a fundemantal lack of honesty.

O43

[a-train]

Originally Posted by Over43

I think he is fundementally wrong also. I do think he does have a valid point about the violence of religion in the past (and present), but I do not think he is being intellectually honest when he plays one hand against religion, and then ignores the scientific communities culpability in many scientific "disasters". Whether it be a purposeful "attack" on mankind (Hiroshima) or accidental (Chernobol). I think, bottom line, Dawkins suffers from a fundemantal lack of honesty.

O43

Lets not forget that fantastic science of Eugenics! Perhaps I will live to see the day when Eugenics advocate John Maynard Keynes is completely laid to the dustbin of folly with his phony theories of economics too. I can't forget W. K. Kellogg who also supported Eugenics and whose brother publicly advocated circumcision as a cure to masturbation, at least they gave us the corn flake.

-a-train

[Over43]

Originally Posted by a-train

Lets not forget that fantastic science of Eugenics! Perhaps I will live to see the day when Eugenics advocate John Maynard Keynes is completely laid to the dustbin of folly with his phony theories of economics too. I can't forget W. K. Kellogg who also supported Eugenics and whose brother publicly advocated circumcision as a cure to masturbation, at least they gave us the corn flake.

-a-train

Really? I'll never think of circumcision again with the same attitude.

Eugenics is a very vile approach to human life. I assume it is related somewhat to Princeton University's professor Peter Singer who teaches a "doctrine" known as Specie-ism. Singer's belief is that no species is anymore important than another. That is a very fundamental definition, but I have never taken the time to look into it more than the very fundamental.

I guess believing that there is something special about being human is a fading thought in many intellectual circles.

O43

[Over43]

I guess a quick addition should be "added" here by me. When I write about scientific inpropriaties I am certainly not try to discredit the scientific community as a whole. In the same light, when I have touched upon religious mistakes of the past I mean that in a general sense, not being directed at any one religion, and I do understand that religion has been manipulated by individuals throughought World history for personal gain.

As with religion, I appreciate science and the progress it has made in my lifetime. When I was 5 I remember watching the moonlanding on a black and white TV and we had 4 stations. Five if you count the fuzzy UHF station from San Francisco. Now I have 200 stations and watch soccer live from England. And we have reusable spacecraft. My wife is alive today because of medical science. I have seen my 89 year old grandfather survive multiple heart attacks, lung cancer, and 4 aneurysms (sp) because of very skilled doctors. All of whom were very adept at their craft. Plus he's really tough.

So, when "critisizing" individuals who have pushed the evolution envelope to the edge I do so with a healthy respect for science and the individuals involed in the many facets of science that I only have a cursory knowledge of. Just as certain religious zealots of the past (and present) didn't get it right, some scientists in the last century haven't gotten it right either. It is a shame that a scientist as brilliant as Werner von Braun was caught up in something as horrific as the V-1/V-2 project. On the other hand Einstein was kept off the atomic bomb project because of his pacifist feelings.

Brigham Young once wrote that (and I paraphrase) it would be improtant for the Latter Day Saints to study their religion and philosophy, mainly because science would become the realm of savants and that our study of religion and philosophy would help us seperate the "good from the bad" in its relation to science.

I guess we take it all for what it's worth and do the best we can everyday.

O43

[Hemidakota]

I don't draw a separation of true science and true religion. They go hand-in-hand when acted upon by honorable men of this world.

[rayhale]

Darwinism is a religion. If you don’t think so, think about this:
Einstein was forced to recant his theory that the universe was expanding, not because there was no evidence it was, but because all the other scientists BELIEVED that the universe was static (or was always one size, and always will be one size).
Alternatively, how about the Big Bang theory, it took scientists a long time to accept it, with mounting evidence scientists were forced to accept it. Why did it take them such a long time to accept the Big Bang theory? Simple, it would force scientists to say there was a start of the universe, which would mean they would be extremely close to saying that there was a God.
This movie didn’t ask the question, but I will; what if God is Nature? Several Eastern religions believe that God is in all nature, and if you take a close look at Darwinism, this is what they believe as well, without God, of course.
Science knows how perfect nature is, but they don’t want you to realize it. They will gloss over the evidence, as they did in the movie, making the average person not realize that there is more than one theory of the start of life, and to other major theories. People want a simple answer, and one answer, and the scientists are more than happy to give us just that.
Religion has its share of Martyrs, but so does Science, Galileo is one off the top of my head. Religious martyrs are understandable, but why does science have theirs?
Faith=Theory
Theory=Faith

[Tru2u4eternity]

I really was fascinated by this movie. It wasn't about glorifying any religion really it was more about our freedom to pursure truth even in the face of science. I also liked that it wasn't an anti science movie either,It showed alot of respect for science and the men who helped discover its important factors. It was wrong so wrong what happened to those men and women who simply wanted their god given right to free oppionion. It was almost scary seeing how much power those universities and organizations have! I never knew their influence was that steep. This was a very eye opening movie.

[JohnnyRudick]

Originally Posted by Over43

I guess a quick addition should be "added" here by me. When I write about scientific inpropriaties I am certainly not try to discredit the scientific community as a whole. . .

Brigham Young once wrote that (and I paraphrase) it would be improtant for the Latter Day Saints to study their religion and philosophy, mainly because science would become the realm of savants and that our study of religion and philosophy would help us seperate the "good from the bad" in its relation to science.

I guess we take it all for what it's worth and do the best we can everyday.

O43

I must point out that not everything called science is science.

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy
trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of
science falsely so called:

1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the
faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.



Bro. Rudick