Non-RM stigma

[Islander]

Originally Posted by MorningStar

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. For me, I was afraid of marrying someone who would go inactive because of my dad leaving, and it was really hard on my mom, so I had concerns about marrying a return missionary because I wanted to make sure the Gospel was a huge priority (but my dad went and he says that was to make his parents happy, so that's no guarantee). A guy I dated hadn't gone, but I think it was his overall behavior that turned me off, thinking he might leave the church someday. My friend married a great guy who never went on a mission and he chose to join the military instead. She never had any issues with that. My brother didn't go on his mission until he was 21 and I think he got more out of it because he waited until he was ready.

Anyway, people are nosey. "When are you going to have a baby? When are you going to have another baby? Why aren't you married?" My friend was judged as being unrighteous because she didn't have a baby for 8 years, which she decided was the right decision because of how unstable her marriage was. She didn't want to bring a baby into a family where they were yelling at each other all the time and possibly going to get divorced. People need to respect personal revelation on these issues.

True MorningStar:

I agree with you in that some are quite insensitive and nosy that way. But is it part of the cultural milieu of the church. Just like any other set of social/cultural expectations. In most countries away from the West and the US girls are expected to marry young, for example.
You are expected to have children within 2 years or so, to remain close to your family and not move away 2000 miles, girls should not be too skinny or people may think they are sick and too weak to bear children, young men should revere their mothers-in-law for she gave you a beautiful wife (in my case/country for example).

These are "unspoken" tenets of the social group and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, I think. If we break away from the norms then WE experience some tension because of the questions. But we can't blame people for having certain expectations.

I am a convert so I am stretching the situation a bit just to make a point/example, but, If I was a young guy, RM, faithful and true to my covenants. And begin to date a young girl, that grew up in the Gospel, propose and marry in the temple. If on my wedding night I find out she has not kept her chastity and did not tell me and kept that issue from me, I have the right to be disappointed. I had certain expectations based on shared values and histories, primarily obedience to the Gospel.

So, yes people sometimes are too nosy and issue value judgments on others based on those cultural expectations. But we should not be too hard on them. They are not being malicious (I hope). They are just being human and LDS in the worst case scenario.

[WANDERER]

LOL so what evidence would she have that they were 'true' to their covenants and that they lived up to obedience and expectations? How disappointing to not have that surety LOL. I laugh at that example having experienced 'doubt' when there wasn't any. Cultural expectations do not always honour others.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by WANDERER

LOL so what evidence would she have that they were 'true' to their covenants and that they lived up to obedience and expectations? How disappointing to not have that surety LOL. I laugh at that example having experienced 'doubt' when there wasn't any. Cultural expectations do not always honour others.

I agree. I was just pointing to the fact that we should not stress so much when others call attention to our choices that deviate from the norms and cultural expectations.

[WANDERER]

....

[WANDERER]

Oh ..you were just illustrating a point...goodonya.

On the "I agree" with you assumption...no...you don't.
However, I must admit...I would like it very much if the next time someone has a problem with something you say that you're first two words are I agree.

[VisionOfLehi]

I think he was agreeing with "Cultural expectations do not always honour others"

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by VisionOfLehi

I do like to wear colored shirts, and have thought about growing a goatee again...

An individualist! One day you shall lead the sheep.

[WANDERER]

VOL I object simply because it's an example that portrays women in the way that it does....and because it was followed by a patronising comment...

I might agree with the basic premise, but I cannot agree with the method used to support it. It undermines the point.

Now if I prefaced my entire post with 'VOL I agree'...would that mean that we did?

[VisionOfLehi]

I have no idea, because, frankly, I didn't understand his original comment.

[Soulsearcher]

i sat in a conversation a few years ago with 4 LDS mothers. They all had daughters in early teens who were starting to notice boys, and all the mothers were starting to set expectations about guys they wanted their girls to end up with. I was part of the conversation but kept quiet for the first bit. Each mother said the first and highest priority for their list was the guy had to be a RM, this was more important than anything else. As they all sat beaming ear to ear ad patting them selves on the backs i let out a rather dismisive laugh. They all kinda got a lil annoyed with me and sarcasticaly asked what i thought was more important.

"The most important thing on my list or the guy who dates my lil girl is that he treats her like she's gold. He respects her and loves her more than life and will do anything and everything in his power to make her happy and never hurt her"

They all went a lil red in the face and i could tell they were embarassed by missing such an obvious thing, and tried to cover that of course that's something a RM would do, so it was assumed in their statmeant. I reminded 2 of them they were divorced from the most selfish hateful abusive men....both RM's. The only one still married and hopefully in love in the room was the woman who didn't marry the RM. Oddly at the end of the conversation their point of view didn't change, but one of the girls was listening in and her and i have talked since, She want's an RM, but not at the cost of what's more important, and i'm proud of her for that.