one God

[bytor2112]

WARNING: The comments expressed here are to help the reader understand how Bytor and others came to our understandings of the nature of God and are not intended to slight or offend or diminish the sacred beliefs of others


Before I became a member of the LDS church I was a Baptist....Southern Baptist. I was taught about the trinity and I was told that "we couldn't understand it, but we had to believe it". I struggled with how we could be created in the image of God....but yet we didn't seem to be anything like him. We prayed to him as our Father....but he didn't seem like my Father......at least not in the sense that I now view him. Why did we have bodies of flesh and bone if God is a spirit? I just didn't get it. I never understood how God could be in Heaven and on earth at the same time. All of the scriptures where Christ is praying to his Father or referring to his Father just made me more confused. I was also taught that if you didn't accept Jesus Christ you would go to hell.....spend eternity in a literal burning hell. But if you did accept him....you were "saved" and would go to heaven because of the "grace" of Jesus Christ. Yet, if you didn't hear about Jesus before you died...well thats just too bad....especially for your children who died before they could accept him. I would ask....well why are we here and what did I do to deserve to burn in hell......just because I was born? Some vague answers would follow about Adam and Eve and some scriptures from Romans....etc. But I still didn't get it....so if Mother Theresa or some other saintly sole didn't accept Jesus Christ and get saved.......they burn for eternity? Yet some rapist, murderer could confess to accept Christ on his death bed and he was Heaven bound...huh Then I began to wonder...why are there so many different Churches.....and what about the Catholic Church? I mean they were basically the first church...right? I began to think...well the Baptists can't be right...I mean they have only been around since....I'm not sure...the 1700's? Then I learned that all of the Protestant denominations were "breakaways" from the Catholic Church. Well, why would God.....be the author of so much confusion....I mean if it were that easy to return to God or go to heaven......and I didn't have a clue what that meant......by just accepting Christ and him crucified.....then why so many differing beliefs. And if the Catholics were the first....wouldn't that mean they were right or at least as close to right as you could get? And if so....wouldn't that necesarily make everyone else wrong??? It seemed to me that the Protestants kind of watered everything down....yet the Catholics still believed in the trinity and I just didn't understand why anyone...including myself......could believe in a God as described by the Creeds...he seemed so impersonal to me and it just didn't square with the scriptures.

Then I found the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints It seemed like all my worries were confirmed and my questions were answered......not just by people...but by something I had never experienced....the Holy Spirit. We are son and daughters of a loving Father in Heaven and the families in which we live are a glimpse of the eternal nature of God's plan. We are literally created in his express image and God is not the author of the confusion that exists and existed in my view of all things religious.

Originally Posted by ama49

Those who are not in the LDS church feel that it is blasphemy to say there is more than one God, but there are numerous occasions in the scriptures that show there is more than one God. For example, in Genesis it says "let us make man in our image."
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Hi ama49,

To offer a different perspective, if I may.

Genesis "let us make man in our image " is speaking about the Trinity ( God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ) BUT they are still ONE God in three persons. That is exactly why he uses the plural " us " in the quote.

And yes, I am sorry if this offends you, But I do think it is blasphemy to believe in more than ONE God.

God bless,
Carl

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hello my dear friend bytor,

I am not Maureen , But I thought I would give you my thoughts, if I may

1. Christ was praying to his Father. " was it himself "
AS the second person of the blessed trinity, he was praying to the first person of the blessed trinity ON OUR behalf.

" While on cross why did he ask why God had forsaken him "
AHHHH Mr. Bytor ( The 534,000 dollar question ) He is petitioning God, on our behalf, and he was referencing psalm 22 ( prayer of an innocent person from OT ) He is also not in distress himself, he ( Jesus ) is praying for OUR MERCY ( psalm 22 ) to God.

2.NO absolutly not one substance ( There is ONE God with three persons , Father, Son, And Holy Spirit and EACH IS EQUAL TO THE OTHER . " Why resurrected to fleshly body " Because he was redeeming all of humanity ( flesh bodies ).

3." Relationship to God " Father and child, Jesus said " we are like chicks under a mother hens wings in relation to God ". We are here to love and serve God and do HIS will for us on earth.

God bless,
Carl

Thanks for the answers, Carl. The problem for us LDS, is we need to have things sound logical to us. The LDS religion is practical. It makes sense that when Stephen looks up into heaven and sees Jesus standing on the right hand of God, that there are obviously two separate beings being viewed. Or that a resurrected Jesus must somehow stow his physical resurrected body once he "returns" to the Trinity.

The reality is, the Trinity is not supposed to make sense. It is a mystery. It is described as "incomprehensible" and "unknowable" in that we really cannot fully understand how 3 persons can make up one God. That many Trinitarians tend to use modalistic methods to describe the Trinity is evidence that even many (if not all) Trinitarians fail to comprehend that which they believe. And that's how it is designed.

While LDS can logically show how the Godhead exists, and that three separate personages (versus persons) make up the Trinity/Godhead; the traditional Trinity is described in the very creeds as incomprehensible and a mystery - so these anthropomorphic references in the Bible simply are weak attempts to describe an unknowable God.

Being such, without God coming down (or His Spirit) and giving us a confirmation on one side of the issue or the other, BOTH Godhead and Trinity can be explained competently from within the pages of the Holy Writ.

There are beginning to be, in fact, a few traditional Christian scholars who are beginning to accept the idea of a "social Trinity" - akin to what the LDS believe. But it is still in the vast minority. Still, I hope the day will come when we can all agree on the things we agree upon, and kindly disagree on the rest. And I hope we can all view each other as Christian brothers and sisters who are sincerely seeking Jesus' grace and heaven.

Originally Posted by bytor2112

[B]WARNING: The comments expressed here are to help the reader understand how Bytor and others came to our understandings of the nature of God and are not intended to slight or offend or diminish the sacred beliefs of others

Bytor,

A Great disclaimer ( will certainly prevet any upper cuts IMHO)

God bless,
Carl

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hello my dear friend bytor,

I am not Maureen , But I thought I would give you my thoughts, if I may

1. Christ was praying to his Father. " was it himself "
AS the second person of the blessed trinity, he was praying to the first person of the blessed trinity ON OUR behalf.

" While on cross why did he ask why God had forsaken him "
AHHHH Mr. Bytor ( The 534,000 dollar question ) He is petitioning God, on our behalf, and he was referencing psalm 22 ( prayer of an innocent person from OT ) He is also not in distress himself, he ( Jesus ) is praying for OUR MERCY ( psalm 22 ) to God.

2.NO absolutly not one substance ( There is ONE God with three persons , Father, Son, And Holy Spirit and EACH IS EQUAL TO THE OTHER . " Why resurrected to fleshly body " Because he was redeeming all of humanity ( flesh bodies ).

3." Relationship to God " Father and child, Jesus said " we are like chicks under a mother hens wings in relation to God ". We are here to love and serve God and do HIS will for us on earth.

God bless,
Carl

Ceeboo....that avatar is sooooooo funny!

Your comment suggests that they are indeed seperate beings......if not one substance. You believe that Christ was literally praying to God who was in heaven?

Do you believe that we existed before we came here? Wouldn't a spiritual body be sufficient to prove that he was alive? What will we do in heaven?

Thanks Ceeboo!! - Bytor

[bytor2112]

AnthonyB.......yes. Certainly more united than just one in purpose...that was just a very short answer. I believe that they are inseperably united.......one in every way...thoughts, deeds and desires....everything but substance.

Originally Posted by rameumptom

Being such, without God coming down (or His Spirit) and giving us a confirmation on one side of the issue or the other, BOTH Godhead and Trinity can be explained competently from within the pages of the Holy Writ.

Still, I hope the day will come when we can all agree on the things we agree upon, and kindly disagree on the rest. And I hope we can all view each other as Christian brothers and sisters who are sincerely seeking Jesus' grace and heaven.

Hi Ram,

First, your most welcome for my answers.

The above " partial ram post " you offered is much appreciated IMHO and indeed well said ( I would agree to a large extent )

Thanks for sharing

God bless,
Carl

[AnthonyB]

bytor,

What do you mean by "substance"? For me all humans are of the same substance, we are all made of the same parts and elements. What in your opinion makes the persons of God not of one substance with each other?

[AnthonyB]

ram,

I have put a post asking some questions on the Christian Board, I'm under the impression that socail trinitarianism is much more common than you think, I would have thought a majority. "The Shack" is very popular book at the moment in Christian circles (it has a very strong socail trinitarian theme) and I've yet heard anyone denounce it as heretical.

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Ceeboo....that avatar is sooooooo funny!

Your comment suggests that they are indeed seperate beings......if not one substance. You believe that Christ was literally praying to God who was in heaven?

Do you believe that we existed before we came here? Wouldn't a spiritual body be sufficient to prove that he was alive? What will we do in heaven?

Thanks Ceeboo!! - Bytor

Bytor,

The avatar, YES ( This is what happens when religions allow Coffee in LARGE DOSES )
( The real ceeboo picked it for me, my 7 year old son, his pic is on my profile page now)

Not sure what you are saying but I will try and offer it again . I believe Christ ( God on earth and was always God from ALL TIME ) Was praying ( FOR US ) to God in heaven ( The Second personage of the Holy Trinity) to have mercy on us. Hope that clears up my perspective on it.

Absolutly NO, I dot believe we existed before we came here ( earth ) I believe we are all creations from ther very Creator of ALL ( ALMIGHTY GOD )

Not sure what you mean " spirit body sufficient " He rose in the flesh to REDEED ALL OF US ( FLESH ).

What will we do in heaven ?? Not sure my friend. I hope and pray we all get there and I hope they have golf courses to.

God bless,
Carl