one God

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

bytor,

What do you mean by "substance"? For me all humans are of the same substance, we are all made of the same parts and elements. What in your opinion makes the persons of God not of one substance with each other?

I believe that God the Father is literally like my earthly Father....except rather than a body of flesh and blood like my earthly Father, he has a glorified body of flesh and bone as does Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is a personage of Spirit. They are "One God"........yet not the same being.......not three in one in the physical sense.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Bytor,

The avatar, YES ( This is what happens when religions allow Coffee in LARGE DOSES )
( The real ceeboo picked it for me, my 7 year old son, his pic is on my profile page now)

Not sure what you are saying but I will try and offer it again . I believe Christ ( God on earth and was always God from ALL TIME ) Was praying ( FOR US ) to God in heaven ( The Second personage of the Holy Trinity) to have mercy on us. Hope that clears up my perspective on it.

Absolutly NO, I dot believe we existed before we came here ( earth ) I believe we are all creations from ther very Creator of ALL ( ALMIGHTY GOD )

Not sure what you mean " spirit body sufficient " He rose in the flesh to REDEED ALL OF US ( FLESH ).

What will we do in heaven ?? Not sure my friend. I hope and pray we all get there and I hope they have golf courses to.

God bless,
Carl

I am guessing that the Son knows the Father very well.......

Originally Posted by bytor2112

I am guessing that the Son knows the Father very well.......

Hello again bytor,

I would certainly say so, they are the same God

Peace my friend,
Carl

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Bytor,

The avatar, YES ( This is what happens when religions allow Coffee in LARGE DOSES )
( The real ceeboo picked it for me, my 7 year old son, his pic is on my profile page now)

Not sure what you are saying but I will try and offer it again . I believe Christ ( God on earth and was always God from ALL TIME ) Was praying ( FOR US ) to God in heaven ( The Second personage of the Holy Trinity) to have mercy on us. Hope that clears up my perspective on it.

Absolutly NO, I dot believe we existed before we came here ( earth ) I believe we are all creations from ther very Creator of ALL ( ALMIGHTY GOD )

Not sure what you mean " spirit body sufficient " He rose in the flesh to REDEED ALL OF US ( FLESH ).

What will we do in heaven ?? Not sure my friend. I hope and pray we all get there and I hope they have golf courses to.

God bless,
Carl

Hey Ceeboo,

Here are some scriptures that suggest that we did exist before we came here.....that God is the Father of our Spirits and that there was a war in heaven....how was there a war in heaven if we did not exist?


From Job

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
From Jeremiah:

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations

From Hebrews:

9 Furthermore we have had afathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

From Revelation:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[pam]

Carl Carl Carl. No more coffee for you my friend.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by ceeboo

Hello again bytor,

I would certainly say so, they are the same God

Peace my friend,
Carl

Errr....I meant your son....avatar......you being the Father

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Errr....I meant your son....avatar......you being the Father

Sorry my friend, YES MY SON, I do indeed have the great pleasure and honor of knowing him very well He is my little booger ( You should see his golf swing )

Sorry for the confusion ( MY Bad )

God bless,
Carl

[AnthonyB]

bytor,

I'm not sure you answered what "substance" means to you. I could take it that by describing the Father and Son as having the same parts as each other, that you are argeeing that they are of the same substance. (Clearly you veiw the substance of the Holy Spirit as differing, in His not having a glorified body but of the same substance as to rest of what He is.)

"not three in one in a physical sense" Since that which makes God one, whatever it is, is not in my mind physcial, I'd have no problems with that line.

"not the same being" A multi personal being is mind blowing, but I really like the idea. (Especially for example how CS Lewis' uses it in "Mere Christianity") LDS seem to have an association of being with physical entity, one being means one physical entity, whereas for me the spiritual/heavenly realm has at its heart a differing paradigm.

In a previous thread, I got to the point that even if I thought the Father had a resurrected body (and I don't) I would still see God as one God. It would not alter my belief that God exists, being forced to use a non biblical word, as a trinity of persons in one God.

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Hey Ceeboo,

Here are some scriptures that suggest that we did exist before we came here.....that God is the Father of our Spirits and that there was a war in heaven....how was there a war in heaven if we did not exist?


From Job

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
From Jeremiah:

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations

From Hebrews:

9 Furthermore we have had afathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

From Revelation:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Bytor,

As to not get into an "interpreting scripture" debate with you ( I have little interest in that and I am certainly no scripture scholar ) I will offer you a few words to not ignore your post to me out of a large amount of respect for you.

God created ALL ( Heaven and Earth ) The " battle " in heaven ( from my perspective ) was about heavenly angels ( NOT US HUMANS ) I do believe Lucifer was indeed thrown from heaven and is now the Devil who tries to cause " pain " with ALL of Gods creations on earth.

Concerning your suggestion that we ( humans ) existed in some sort of " spirit life " or "pre earthly life " as your scripture claims. I respectfully and kindly simply disagree.
He ( GOD, ALL THREE ) KNOWS AND KNEW EVERYTHING ( NOT because we were before we were born BUT rather because he is the very creator OF ALL, including us, his very creations. Yes, we are not brothers or spirit brothers of Christ, we are the very loved creations of Christ.

God bless,
Carl

[Maureen]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

May I ask some respectful questions........ ?

Hi bytor, sure, I will answer the best I can.

1. Who was Christ praying to in the Garden of Gethsemenee? Was it himself? While hanging on the cross, why did he ask why God had forsaken him?

Christ was praying to God the Father.
No, he was not praying to himself.
Jesus was reciting the first words of Psalms 22, a messianic psalms that depicts the suffering of Jesus.

What does the prayer in John Ch. 17 mean to you?

It is a prayer in which Jesus is asking God the Father to watch over his disciples for they know the Father, and the Son who the Father has given to the world. It is prayer of love and concern for his disciples. A prayer to watch over them and protect them.

2. Is it your belief that God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of one substance? If so why was Jesus resurected to a fleshly body and not just a Spirit?

I believe that God has a divine essence or nature. We mortals all have human natures, but do not share the same nature because there are many of us. But there is only one God, therefore in a way if we say substance is synonymous with nature, then yes. The Father, Son and HS share the same and one and only divine nature.

3. What do you believe your relationship to God is..... Father and child or just Creator and created?

Both. God created me, therefore I am his creation. Yet we also have a more personal relationship as Father and child.

Also what are your views regarding why we are here? Or perhap a better question.......where did you come from.....why are you here....and where are you going when you die?

I believe for whatever reason God chose to create mankind. I come from God's miraculous powers to create. I see my and mankind's purpose here a little more complex than just to worship God. I believe God created us in such a complex way so we could be inventors, mystery solvers, people curious and fascinated with life and the world God gave us to live in. And with all the good things that come out of our curiosities, God is glorified. I have faith that when this life is over I will be in heaven, being curious and fascinated with learning more about God.

Thanks in advance for your responses......I hope you won't think my questions rude or disrespectful that is not my intent. I am just trying to understand. I once believed as you expressed....former Baptist.....but only because I was taught that it was so. Now I have Spiritual witness and confirmation of what I now believe to be true.

You're welcome bytor, thanks for being interested to know.

M.